[anti-abuse-wg] update on netsecdb project

Frank,

I have assumed, hopefully correctly, that you meant this mail to go to 
the list again, so I have copied my reply there.

"Dipl-Inform. Frank Gadegast" wrote the following on 06/04/2010 16:03:
>
> Hello Brian,
>
>>> How can not anybody have an idea, how to solve the problem ?
>>
>> Many people have many ideas, not all of them work.  There remains no
>> silver bullet.  And any recommendation made still needs to be adopted.
>
> I just discribed one arround launch time.
> RIPE should urged all members to stop spam originating from their networks.

You did not describe a silver bullet.  The RIPE community has urged 
their members to stop spam and abuse for years, RIPE-409 says it quite 
plainly, this has been the repeated advice.  There are potential ways of 
enforcing this, but please do not claim that what has been discussed so 
far today will suddenly stop network abuse.

>>> Usally there are to many ideas resulting in at least something to do.
>>
>> And many things have been discussed, and often solutions suggested.  It
>
> Not on the list.

And the minutes of each meeting are posted to the list.  So far no 
discussion has come out of them.

>> is up to people to implement those suggestions or to make proposals to
>> the RIPE community and perhaps ask the NCC to undertake a task.  In
>> addition, as we discussed in Lisbon and as we will be discussing again
>> in Prague, the two chairs of the WG have been working with the NCC and
>> international law enforcement to look at ways of furthering cooperation
>
> goverments ?
> this will make all worse and slower ...

The aim is to get governments and LEAs onside, to examine policies and 
procedures at RIR level and to avoid the making of necessary legislation 
and to keep the bottom up consensus approach.  However there is no way 
that governments will not be involved, the idea is to take their input 
and show them we, as a community, are acting.

>> and putting procedures in place that can more directly tackle network
>> abuse.  However this is, as you must appreciate, not a simple or fast task.
>>
>>>> we hope, in May, to chair another productive meeting.
>>>
>>> What will be discussed there ?
>>> Agenda ?
>>
>> We're trying to finalise the agenda at the moment, but the work that is
>> taking place with the NCC, the RIPE community and the LEAs will be
>
> Well, please post it to the list, so that it can be discussed before
> its finalized.

I will post an agenda, but I'm not sure what discussion there is likely 
to be as my two calls for agenda items have, so far, met with one single 
response.  Equally, the agenda of any WG is reasonably mutable and on 
occasion has been finalised an hour or so before the meeting, so there 
will be plenty of time for discussion.

>> playing a major part.  I hope to have a first draft by the end of this
>> week.  Obviously if any proposals are brought to the WG before the
>> meeting on Thursday 6th, discussion time for them will be allocated on
>> the agenda.
>
> All this should happen all on the list, not everybody can attend meetings.

Apologies, I should have been clearer.  As has been stated elsewhere 
and, I believe, on this list, while policy proposals will, undoubtedly, 
be discussed at meetings, the primary place to discuss policy is the WG 
mailing list and there is no intention or plan to purely discuss things 
at meetings.

Brian.