Fwd: [anti-abuse-wg] Antispam measures

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> From: peter håkanson <peter at hk.ipsec.se>
> Date: October 21, 2009 11:33:51 AM GMT+02:00
> To: Florian Weimer <fweimer at bfk.de>
> Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Antispam measures
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>
> On Oct 21, 2009, at 10:52 AM, Florian Weimer wrote:
>
>> * Chimel Chimel:
>>
>>> 1) Does RIPE or other registrars impose antispam fighting measures
>>> or a code of conduct to the ISPs or telcos it allocates IP ranges
>>> to?
>>
>> No, not that I know.
>>
>>> For instance, do these registrar customers specifically sign an
>>> agreement never to post spam themselves. Do they also sign an
>>> agreement to terminate IP sub-allocation or contract with their own
>>> customers who are using their IP addresses to post spam?
>>
>> No, surely not.  That would be poor service.  You don't want to lose
>> your IP resources just because your infrastructure has been
>> compromised. 8-(
>
> On the contrary, a real risk of loosing their allocation might be
> a good motivation to run their shop accordingly. As of today some
> providers don't care ( and will benefit from spammers).
>
> Just like alkohol-serving firms ( bars etc) if they don't run ther bar
> according to local rules they will loose the permits.
> We don't allow sleazy hospitals either. Why should we permit
> sleazy ISP's to poison our vital infrastructure ??
>
>>
>>> 2) If there is such measures, how does RIPE enforce them?
>>
>> There is no enforcement.
>>
>>> 3) What does RIPE intends to do about Ukrtelecom, who is alone
>>> responsible for hundreds of thousands of daily spam posts in
>>> discussion forums and BBSs?
>>
>> Well ...
>>
>>> According to the people in stopforumspam.com, every single post
>>> emanating from ukrtelecom is spam, there is not a single genuine
>>> user from that telco.
>>
>> ... so you should be lucky that it's so easy to filter that type of
>> spam.  If you shut down netblocks, the badness just spreads far and
>> wide and gets more difficult to track.
>>
>> Of course, if the activity is indeed illegal, it should be stopped.
>> One problem we face is that a lot of questionable practices (DNS
>> poisoning, injecting pop-ups with ads, installing software on PCs
>> without informed consent) are also carried out by obviously  
>> legitimate
>> businesses, so it's often difficult to convince a prosecutor that  
>> it's
>> illegal.
>>
>> On top of that, many legal scholars claim that in the EU, once you  
>> say
>> the magic word, "telco", you are no longer responsible for the  
>> traffic
>> you handle, much like anyone could seek asylum in Germany (until we
>> got rid of this constitutional guarantee in the 90s, which was rather
>> disappointing because nothing expresses your national wealth better
>> than an almost unconditional willingness to share it).  This blanket
>> liability exemption is the root of the problem, and it is pretty much
>> unique to the telco sector, at least in its generality.  It has to  
>> go.
>
> We don't have to resort to legal discussions here , if RIPE supplies  
> goods
> under some conditions, any breakage of that condition is enought
> to terminate the contract. It's a deal between business partners.
>>
>>> I'd like to see the whole list in order to ban it all from my forum,
>>> even if it means banning genuine users from Ukraine.
>>
>> The relevant parts of the RIPE database is available from
>> ftp.ripe.net.  In the past, I've generated anti-abuse ACLs from mnt- 
>> by
>> handles, which was surprisingly effective.  Using BGP might help as
>> well.
>>
>> -- 
>> Florian Weimer                <fweimer at bfk.de>
>> BFK edv-consulting GmbH       http://www.bfk.de/
>> Kriegsstraße 100              tel: +49-721-96201-1
>> D-76133 Karlsruhe             fax: +49-721-96201-99
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ======================================================
> Peter Håkanson           Phone     +46707328101       Fax +4631223190
> IPSec sverige                Email      peter at ipsec.se
> "Safe by design"           Address    Bror Nilssons gata 16   
> Lundbystrand
>                                        S-417 55  Gothenburg   Sweden
>
>
>


======================================================
Peter Håkanson           Phone     +46707328101       Fax +4631223190
IPSec sverige                Email      peter at ipsec.se
"Safe by design"           Address    Bror Nilssons gata 16   
Lundbystrand
                                         S-417 55  Gothenburg   Sweden