[address-policy-wg] address-policy-wg Digest, Vol 9, Issue 17

Dear Ingrid: · Thu May 24 15:34:05 CEST 2012

Hi Lu,

As said earlier, the need must be in the RIPE Service Region. The 
address space must be originated from the RIPE NCC service region. In 
addition to this there can be announcements from other regions.

There is one thing I would like to add regarding the examples posted on 
the list. The response to the examples given is purely based on the 
information provided on the list. Where the address space is needed, is 
only one of the criteria in the evaluation of a request. The evaluation 
of a request is based on the full set of applicable policy as described 
in IPv4 Address Allocation and Assignment Policies for the RIPE NCC 
Service Region (http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-530)

Regards,

Ingrid Wijte

Registration Services Assistant Manager
RIPE NCC

On 5/23/12 10:00 PM, Lu Heng wrote:
> Dear Ingrid:
>
> Thanks for replying.
>
> So is that to speaking:
>
> As long as the need is inside the region, part of the
> infrastructure(CDN network for example) with the IP address can be
> announced outside of Ripe service region(as I see many are doing
> that).
>
> Am I correct?
>
> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 5:17 PM,<address-policy-wg-request at ripe.net>  wrote:
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Re: Any-cast or uni-cast solutions (Tore Anderson)
>>    2. Re: Any-cast or uni-cast solutions (Jan Zorz @ go6.si)
>>    3. Re: Any-cast or uni-cast solutions (Jan Zorz @ go6.si)
>>    4. Re: Any-cast or uni-cast solutions (Jan Zorz @ go6.si)
>>    5. Re: Assignment transfer among LIR (Shane Kerr)
>>    6. Re: Assignment transfer among LIR (Pascal Gloor)
>>    7. Re: Assignment transfer among LIR (Jan Zorz @ go6.si)
>>    8. Re: Any-cast or uni-cast solutions (Randy Bush)
>>    9. Re: Any-cast or uni-cast solutions (Ingrid Wijte)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 12:01:13 +0200
>> From: Tore Anderson<tore.anderson at redpill-linpro.com>
>> Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] Any-cast or uni-cast solutions
>> To: Ingrid Wijte<ingrid at ripe.net>
>> Cc: address-policy-wg at ripe.net
>> Message-ID:<4FBCB569.5060204 at redpill-linpro.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> * Ingrid Wijte
>>
>>> I would like to give some further clarification on this.
>>>
>>> The RIPE NCC allocates/assigns address space to organisations who have a
>>> need in the RIPE NCC service region. The address space must be
>>> originated from the RIPE NCC service region. Due to the diverse nature
>>> of businesses, in addition to this there can be announcements from other
>>> regions.
>> Just to make 110% certain, you're saying here that it is the *need* that
>> must be in the RIPE region, not the *organisation*, correct?
>>
>> Example 1: China Unicom sets up a legal organisation in the Netherlands,
>> joins the NCC, and requests an allocation from which they intend to
>> assign addresses to broadband customers in China. They intend to
>> advertise the allocated prefix(es) to peers at AMS-IX (as well as from
>> other exchange points around the world).
>>
>> Example 2: I, representing an existing LIR in the RIPE region, build a
>> data center in Australia and set up a server hosting business there. I
>> want to make an assignment to a new customer in this data center from my
>> IPv4 allocation received from the RIPE NCC, and request that from the
>> NCC hostmater using a ripe-488 form.
>>
>> Assuming all the documentation is otherwise in order and the need is
>> real, will these requests be granted or denied?
>>
>> Best regards,
>> --
>> Tore Anderson
>> Redpill Linpro AS - http://www.redpill-linpro.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 12:03:28 +0200
>> From: "Jan Zorz @ go6.si"<jan at go6.si>
>> Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] Any-cast or uni-cast solutions
>> To: address-policy-wg at ripe.net
>> Message-ID:<4FBCB5F0.4050009 at go6.si>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> On 5/23/12 10:28 AM, Randy Bush wrote:
>>>> You can announce them anywhere you like. But you cannot assign them to
>>>> end users outside outside of the region.
>>> really?  so i have a /16 from ncc and i spread it over pops in ams, lon,
>>> and nyc, but i can not have bgp-speaking customers in that address space
>>> in nyc?  if true, that is soooo broken.
>> +1
>>
>> (I just saw upfront that comment coming in :) :) :) )
>>
>> Jan
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 12:11:36 +0200
>> From: "Jan Zorz @ go6.si"<jan at go6.si>
>> Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] Any-cast or uni-cast solutions
>> To: address-policy-wg at ripe.net
>> Message-ID:<4FBCB7D8.5090903 at go6.si>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> On 5/23/12 12:01 PM, Tore Anderson wrote:
>>> Example 1: China Unicom sets up a legal organisation in the Netherlands,
>>> joins the NCC, and requests an allocation from which they intend to
>>> assign addresses to broadband customers in China. They intend to
>>> advertise the allocated prefix(es) to peers at AMS-IX (as well as from
>>> other exchange points around the world).
>> They could also say during the initial alloc process that they'll
>> allocate this resources to potential customers in RIPE-NCC region and
>> the use it elsewhere. Just saying...
>>
>>> Example 2: I, representing an existing LIR in the RIPE region, build a
>>> data center in Australia and set up a server hosting business there. I
>>> want to make an assignment to a new customer in this data center from my
>>> IPv4 allocation received from the RIPE NCC, and request that from the
>>> NCC hostmater using a ripe-488 form.
>>>
>>> Assuming all the documentation is otherwise in order and the need is
>>> real, will these requests be granted or denied?
>> good questions, wonder what the answers will be :)
>>
>> Cheers, Jan
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 12:12:48 +0200
>> From: "Jan Zorz @ go6.si"<jan at go6.si>
>> Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] Any-cast or uni-cast solutions
>> To: address-policy-wg at ripe.net
>> Message-ID:<4FBCB820.2020704 at go6.si>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> On 5/23/12 10:59 AM, Tore Anderson wrote:
>>> If on the other hand out-of-region assignments are valid and allowed, I
>>> cannot fathom why those fast growing ISPs in China, India, Vietnam and
>>> so on that were allocating IPv4 addresses from APNIC at an incredible
>>> rate right up until the day APNIC hit the /8 have not simply set up
>>> legal organisations in the RIPE region, joined the NCC, and continued
>>> allocating from here in more or less the same rate as before APNIC ran out.
>> Maybe those IPv4-hungry operators are just not aware of this "option" ;)
>>
>> Jan
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 13:11:54 +0200
>> From: Shane Kerr<shane at time-travellers.org>
>> Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] Assignment transfer among LIR
>> To: Pascal Gloor<pascal.gloor at finecom.ch>
>> Cc: "address-policy-wg at ripe.net"<address-policy-wg at ripe.net>
>> Message-ID:
>>         <20120523131154.55f5f50d at shane-eeepc.home.time-travellers.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>>
>> Pascal,
>>
>> On Tuesday, 2012-05-22 16:26:50 +0000,
>> Pascal Gloor<pascal.gloor at finecom.ch>  wrote:
>>>> IOW, I don't see any clear solutions to this problem for existing
>>>> contracts.
>>> To be honest, me neither, but I wanted some community feedback to see
>>> if there would be a solution I didn't think of.
>> In my mind, this is the MAIN problem with IPv4 exhaustion. Anyone who
>> got IPv4 address before exhaustion can provide services, anyone else
>> cannot.
>>
>> Think back to the Internet in 1990 and where it would be today if the
>> phone companies held all of the IPv4 space and you had to go through
>> them for all connectivity.
>>
>> While James Blessing's "use IPv6" suggestion is perhaps not easy, it's
>> the best answer we have. :(
>>
>> --
>> Shane
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 12:30:17 +0000
>> From: Pascal Gloor<pascal.gloor at finecom.ch>
>> Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] Assignment transfer among LIR
>> To: "Jan Zorz @ go6.si"<jan at go6.si>, "address-policy-wg at ripe.net"
>>         <address-policy-wg at ripe.net>
>> Message-ID:<CBE2A372.25BDA%pascal.gloor at finecom.ch>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>>> Why moving elswhere then?
>> It's the other way around. We are the wholesale cable provider and this
>> might be an issue to gain new customers if they don't have IPs and can't
>> have them from us.
>>
>>
>> Pascal
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 14:57:02 +0200
>> From: "Jan Zorz @ go6.si"<jan at go6.si>
>> Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] Assignment transfer among LIR
>> To: "address-policy-wg at ripe.net"<address-policy-wg at ripe.net>
>> Message-ID:<4FBCDE9E.9050604 at go6.si>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> On 5/23/12 2:30 PM, Pascal Gloor wrote:
>>>> Why moving elswhere then?
>>> It's the other way around. We are the wholesale cable provider and this
>>> might be an issue to gain new customers if they don't have IPs and can't
>>> have them from us.
>> I think you nailed it.
>>
>> So it's not the fairness and competitiveness issue but purely lack of
>> resources and IPv4 depletion that is beating your business up (and not
>> just yours).
>>
>> You have several ways out, as already pointed in this discussion:
>>
>> - Big evil CGN
>> - A bit less evil A+P derivates (MAP, 4RD, etc) - when they become available
>> - IPv6 with NAT64/DNS64 in the core
>>
>> Pick your poison :)
>>
>> Cheers, Jan
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 22:31:19 +0900
>> From: Randy Bush<randy at psg.com>
>> Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] Any-cast or uni-cast solutions
>> To: Tore Anderson<tore.anderson at redpill-linpro.com>
>> Cc: Sander Steffann<sander at steffann.nl>, Lu Heng
>>         <h.lu at anytimechinese.com>,      address-policy-wg at ripe.net
>> Message-ID:<m2wr439g7s.wl%randy at psg.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>>> That is my understanding, at least. I asked this question to the RIR
>>> panel at the mic in Rome, whether and APNIC region ISP could (post APNIC
>>> depletion) set up a LIR in the RIPE region (or any other region), and
>>> allocate addresses from there and assign them to end users in their home
>>> region. The answer (which came from Geoff Huston IIRC) was something
>>> along the lines of ?no, you have to assign the addresses in the service
>>> region from which they were allocated?.
>> you mis-heard
>>
>> i am in the apnic region and chaired address policy sig in apnic for
>> some years.  this is not the case.
>>
>> randy
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 17:17:09 +0200
>> From: Ingrid Wijte<ingrid at ripe.net>
>> Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] Any-cast or uni-cast solutions
>> To: address-policy-wg at ripe.net
>> Message-ID:<4FBCFF75.9050708 at ripe.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> Hi Tore,
>>
>> On 5/23/12 12:01 PM, Tore Anderson wrote:
>>> * Ingrid Wijte
>>>
>>>> I would like to give some further clarification on this.
>>>>
>>>> The RIPE NCC allocates/assigns address space to organisations who have a
>>>> need in the RIPE NCC service region. The address space must be
>>>> originated from the RIPE NCC service region. Due to the diverse nature
>>>> of businesses, in addition to this there can be announcements from other
>>>> regions.
>>> Just to make 110% certain, you're saying here that it is the *need* that
>>> must be in the RIPE region, not the *organisation*, correct?
>> The need and the route origination must be in the RIPE NCC service region.
>>> Example 1: China Unicom sets up a legal organisation in the Netherlands,
>>> joins the NCC, and requests an allocation from which they intend to
>>> assign addresses to broadband customers in China. They intend to
>>> advertise the allocated prefix(es) to peers at AMS-IX (as well as from
>>> other exchange points around the world).
>> This example would be ok for several reasons:
>> The requestor is a RIPE NCC member. They have infrastructure in the
>> region and the address space will originate from the RIPE NCC service
>> region.
>> Other similar examples would be VPN Providers but also Satellite
>> providers that are based in the region and have customers globally.
>>> Example 2: I, representing an existing LIR in the RIPE region, build a
>>> data center in Australia and set up a server hosting business there. I
>>> want to make an assignment to a new customer in this data center from my
>>> IPv4 allocation received from the RIPE NCC, and request that from the
>>> NCC hostmater using a ripe-488 form.
>> As long as the prefix is originated in the RIPE NCC service region, this
>> would be approved. The LIR has an allocation, is announcing it in the
>> RIPE NCC service region, and is making PA assignments to its customers.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Ingrid Wijte
>>
>> Registration Services Assistant Manager
>> RIPE NCC
>>
>>> Assuming all the documentation is otherwise in order and the need is
>>> real, will these requests be granted or denied?
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>
>>
>> End of address-policy-wg Digest, Vol 9, Issue 17
>> ************************************************
>
>