[address-policy-wg] address-policy-wg Digest, Vol 9, Issue 17

Dear Ingrid:

Thanks for replying.

So is that to speaking:

As long as the need is inside the region, part of the
infrastructure(CDN network for example) with the IP address can be
announced outside of Ripe service region(as I see many are doing
that).

Am I correct?

On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 5:17 PM,  <address-policy-wg-request at ripe.net> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Any-cast or uni-cast solutions (Tore Anderson)
>   2. Re: Any-cast or uni-cast solutions (Jan Zorz @ go6.si)
>   3. Re: Any-cast or uni-cast solutions (Jan Zorz @ go6.si)
>   4. Re: Any-cast or uni-cast solutions (Jan Zorz @ go6.si)
>   5. Re: Assignment transfer among LIR (Shane Kerr)
>   6. Re: Assignment transfer among LIR (Pascal Gloor)
>   7. Re: Assignment transfer among LIR (Jan Zorz @ go6.si)
>   8. Re: Any-cast or uni-cast solutions (Randy Bush)
>   9. Re: Any-cast or uni-cast solutions (Ingrid Wijte)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 12:01:13 +0200
> From: Tore Anderson <tore.anderson at redpill-linpro.com>
> Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] Any-cast or uni-cast solutions
> To: Ingrid Wijte <ingrid at ripe.net>
> Cc: address-policy-wg at ripe.net
> Message-ID: <4FBCB569.5060204 at redpill-linpro.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> * Ingrid Wijte
>
>> I would like to give some further clarification on this.
>>
>> The RIPE NCC allocates/assigns address space to organisations who have a
>> need in the RIPE NCC service region. The address space must be
>> originated from the RIPE NCC service region. Due to the diverse nature
>> of businesses, in addition to this there can be announcements from other
>> regions.
>
> Just to make 110% certain, you're saying here that it is the *need* that
> must be in the RIPE region, not the *organisation*, correct?
>
> Example 1: China Unicom sets up a legal organisation in the Netherlands,
> joins the NCC, and requests an allocation from which they intend to
> assign addresses to broadband customers in China. They intend to
> advertise the allocated prefix(es) to peers at AMS-IX (as well as from
> other exchange points around the world).
>
> Example 2: I, representing an existing LIR in the RIPE region, build a
> data center in Australia and set up a server hosting business there. I
> want to make an assignment to a new customer in this data center from my
> IPv4 allocation received from the RIPE NCC, and request that from the
> NCC hostmater using a ripe-488 form.
>
> Assuming all the documentation is otherwise in order and the need is
> real, will these requests be granted or denied?
>
> Best regards,
> --
> Tore Anderson
> Redpill Linpro AS - http://www.redpill-linpro.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 12:03:28 +0200
> From: "Jan Zorz @ go6.si" <jan at go6.si>
> Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] Any-cast or uni-cast solutions
> To: address-policy-wg at ripe.net
> Message-ID: <4FBCB5F0.4050009 at go6.si>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 5/23/12 10:28 AM, Randy Bush wrote:
>>> You can announce them anywhere you like. But you cannot assign them to
>>> end users outside outside of the region.
>>
>> really?  so i have a /16 from ncc and i spread it over pops in ams, lon,
>> and nyc, but i can not have bgp-speaking customers in that address space
>> in nyc?  if true, that is soooo broken.
>
> +1
>
> (I just saw upfront that comment coming in :) :) :) )
>
> Jan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 12:11:36 +0200
> From: "Jan Zorz @ go6.si" <jan at go6.si>
> Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] Any-cast or uni-cast solutions
> To: address-policy-wg at ripe.net
> Message-ID: <4FBCB7D8.5090903 at go6.si>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 5/23/12 12:01 PM, Tore Anderson wrote:
>> Example 1: China Unicom sets up a legal organisation in the Netherlands,
>> joins the NCC, and requests an allocation from which they intend to
>> assign addresses to broadband customers in China. They intend to
>> advertise the allocated prefix(es) to peers at AMS-IX (as well as from
>> other exchange points around the world).
>
> They could also say during the initial alloc process that they'll
> allocate this resources to potential customers in RIPE-NCC region and
> the use it elsewhere. Just saying...
>
>>
>> Example 2: I, representing an existing LIR in the RIPE region, build a
>> data center in Australia and set up a server hosting business there. I
>> want to make an assignment to a new customer in this data center from my
>> IPv4 allocation received from the RIPE NCC, and request that from the
>> NCC hostmater using a ripe-488 form.
>>
>> Assuming all the documentation is otherwise in order and the need is
>> real, will these requests be granted or denied?
>
> good questions, wonder what the answers will be :)
>
> Cheers, Jan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 12:12:48 +0200
> From: "Jan Zorz @ go6.si" <jan at go6.si>
> Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] Any-cast or uni-cast solutions
> To: address-policy-wg at ripe.net
> Message-ID: <4FBCB820.2020704 at go6.si>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 5/23/12 10:59 AM, Tore Anderson wrote:
>> If on the other hand out-of-region assignments are valid and allowed, I
>> cannot fathom why those fast growing ISPs in China, India, Vietnam and
>> so on that were allocating IPv4 addresses from APNIC at an incredible
>> rate right up until the day APNIC hit the /8 have not simply set up
>> legal organisations in the RIPE region, joined the NCC, and continued
>> allocating from here in more or less the same rate as before APNIC ran out.
>
> Maybe those IPv4-hungry operators are just not aware of this "option" ;)
>
> Jan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 13:11:54 +0200
> From: Shane Kerr <shane at time-travellers.org>
> Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] Assignment transfer among LIR
> To: Pascal Gloor <pascal.gloor at finecom.ch>
> Cc: "address-policy-wg at ripe.net" <address-policy-wg at ripe.net>
> Message-ID:
>        <20120523131154.55f5f50d at shane-eeepc.home.time-travellers.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Pascal,
>
> On Tuesday, 2012-05-22 16:26:50 +0000,
> Pascal Gloor <pascal.gloor at finecom.ch> wrote:
>> >IOW, I don't see any clear solutions to this problem for existing
>> >contracts.
>>
>> To be honest, me neither, but I wanted some community feedback to see
>> if there would be a solution I didn't think of.
>
> In my mind, this is the MAIN problem with IPv4 exhaustion. Anyone who
> got IPv4 address before exhaustion can provide services, anyone else
> cannot.
>
> Think back to the Internet in 1990 and where it would be today if the
> phone companies held all of the IPv4 space and you had to go through
> them for all connectivity.
>
> While James Blessing's "use IPv6" suggestion is perhaps not easy, it's
> the best answer we have. :(
>
> --
> Shane
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 12:30:17 +0000
> From: Pascal Gloor <pascal.gloor at finecom.ch>
> Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] Assignment transfer among LIR
> To: "Jan Zorz @ go6.si" <jan at go6.si>, "address-policy-wg at ripe.net"
>        <address-policy-wg at ripe.net>
> Message-ID: <CBE2A372.25BDA%pascal.gloor at finecom.ch>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>>Why moving elswhere then?
>
> It's the other way around. We are the wholesale cable provider and this
> might be an issue to gain new customers if they don't have IPs and can't
> have them from us.
>
>
> Pascal
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 14:57:02 +0200
> From: "Jan Zorz @ go6.si" <jan at go6.si>
> Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] Assignment transfer among LIR
> To: "address-policy-wg at ripe.net" <address-policy-wg at ripe.net>
> Message-ID: <4FBCDE9E.9050604 at go6.si>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 5/23/12 2:30 PM, Pascal Gloor wrote:
>>> Why moving elswhere then?
>>
>> It's the other way around. We are the wholesale cable provider and this
>> might be an issue to gain new customers if they don't have IPs and can't
>> have them from us.
>
> I think you nailed it.
>
> So it's not the fairness and competitiveness issue but purely lack of
> resources and IPv4 depletion that is beating your business up (and not
> just yours).
>
> You have several ways out, as already pointed in this discussion:
>
> - Big evil CGN
> - A bit less evil A+P derivates (MAP, 4RD, etc) - when they become available
> - IPv6 with NAT64/DNS64 in the core
>
> Pick your poison :)
>
> Cheers, Jan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 22:31:19 +0900
> From: Randy Bush <randy at psg.com>
> Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] Any-cast or uni-cast solutions
> To: Tore Anderson <tore.anderson at redpill-linpro.com>
> Cc: Sander Steffann <sander at steffann.nl>, Lu Heng
>        <h.lu at anytimechinese.com>,      address-policy-wg at ripe.net
> Message-ID: <m2wr439g7s.wl%randy at psg.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>> That is my understanding, at least. I asked this question to the RIR
>> panel at the mic in Rome, whether and APNIC region ISP could (post APNIC
>> depletion) set up a LIR in the RIPE region (or any other region), and
>> allocate addresses from there and assign them to end users in their home
>> region. The answer (which came from Geoff Huston IIRC) was something
>> along the lines of ?no, you have to assign the addresses in the service
>> region from which they were allocated?.
>
> you mis-heard
>
> i am in the apnic region and chaired address policy sig in apnic for
> some years.  this is not the case.
>
> randy
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 17:17:09 +0200
> From: Ingrid Wijte <ingrid at ripe.net>
> Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] Any-cast or uni-cast solutions
> To: address-policy-wg at ripe.net
> Message-ID: <4FBCFF75.9050708 at ripe.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi Tore,
>
> On 5/23/12 12:01 PM, Tore Anderson wrote:
>> * Ingrid Wijte
>>
>>> I would like to give some further clarification on this.
>>>
>>> The RIPE NCC allocates/assigns address space to organisations who have a
>>> need in the RIPE NCC service region. The address space must be
>>> originated from the RIPE NCC service region. Due to the diverse nature
>>> of businesses, in addition to this there can be announcements from other
>>> regions.
>> Just to make 110% certain, you're saying here that it is the *need* that
>> must be in the RIPE region, not the *organisation*, correct?
> The need and the route origination must be in the RIPE NCC service region.
>>
>> Example 1: China Unicom sets up a legal organisation in the Netherlands,
>> joins the NCC, and requests an allocation from which they intend to
>> assign addresses to broadband customers in China. They intend to
>> advertise the allocated prefix(es) to peers at AMS-IX (as well as from
>> other exchange points around the world).
> This example would be ok for several reasons:
> The requestor is a RIPE NCC member. They have infrastructure in the
> region and the address space will originate from the RIPE NCC service
> region.
> Other similar examples would be VPN Providers but also Satellite
> providers that are based in the region and have customers globally.
>>
>> Example 2: I, representing an existing LIR in the RIPE region, build a
>> data center in Australia and set up a server hosting business there. I
>> want to make an assignment to a new customer in this data center from my
>> IPv4 allocation received from the RIPE NCC, and request that from the
>> NCC hostmater using a ripe-488 form.
> As long as the prefix is originated in the RIPE NCC service region, this
> would be approved. The LIR has an allocation, is announcing it in the
> RIPE NCC service region, and is making PA assignments to its customers.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ingrid Wijte
>
> Registration Services Assistant Manager
> RIPE NCC
>
>> Assuming all the documentation is otherwise in order and the need is
>> real, will these requests be granted or denied?
>>
>> Best regards,
>
>
>
> End of address-policy-wg Digest, Vol 9, Issue 17
> ************************************************



-- 
--
Kind regards.
Lu

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