<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Hello Owen,</div><div> </div><div>While I agree ( and cudos to Job for noticing the issue while the document is still at the draft stage), the current process for allocation is not developer friendly.</div><div> </div><div><div>For ExaBGP, I also had to squat a code point to implement <a href="http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-frs-bgp-operational-message-00" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">draft-frs-bgp-operational-message</a>.</div><div>I doubt it will eve cause an operational issue, ExaBGP is not used to route packets in anyone's core, but but the current process gave me no choice: it takes implementation to find issues with drafts and/or interrop problems, unexpected behaviours or simply provide a feature to a crying customer even if a draft is never created / never reach RFC status.</div></div><div> </div><div>I remember reading a draft from John which attempted to allocate some code points for experimentation - my memory is fuzzy on the details sorry - but even then this would require re numbering which is not ideal.</div><div> </div><div>So perhaps in addition to recognising the squatting issue, "we" should look at how the current IETF process works and can be changed to improve experimentation.</div><div> </div><div>Thomas</div><div> </div><div><div>Sent from my iPad</div></div><div> On 27 Oct 2016, at 16:47, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote: </div><blockquote type="cite"><div>I don’t mind the move to 32, but I hope the vendors are getting appropriately smacked for squatting and that those attributes are not allowed to be misappropriated by the vendors. We have a standards process for a reason and vendors simply squatting on numbers is a violation of that process which cannot be allowed to stand unless we wish to establish that as precedent and simply allow vendors to claim numbers as they wish. This already happened with the BSD community in their implementation of a pseudo-VRRP like capability and now two different vendors have abused BGP path attributes. This is not a good path for us to continue. Owen <blockquote type="cite">On Oct 26, 2016, at 11:19 PM, Job Snijders <<a href="mailto:job@ntt.net">job@ntt.net</a>> wrote: </blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Dear Internet, </blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Through this beacon it was discovered that a vendor was squatting on BGP </blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Path Attribute value 30. And another vendor sat on 31. </blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote><blockquote type="cite">So, a twisted turn of events, the Large BGP Communities effort has ended up </blockquote><blockquote type="cite">with BGP Path Attribute value 32 - very befitting if you look at the very </blockquote><blockquote type="cite">problem we're trying to solve :-) </blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote><blockquote type="cite">The beacon has been updated to use the new IANA assigned value, nothing </blockquote><blockquote type="cite">else was changed. Hopefully we are in the clear this time around! </blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Please verify if you can see 192.147.168.0/24 and 2001:67c:208c::/48 </blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Kind regards, </blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Job </blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 05:01:56PM +0200, Job Snijders wrote: </blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Large BGP Communities are a novel way to signal information between </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">networks. An example of a Large BGP Communities is: 2914:4056024901:80. </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Large BGP Communities are composed of three 4-octet integers, separated </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">by something like a colon. This is easy to remember and accommodates </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">advanced routing policies in relation to 4-Byte ASNs. It is the tool that has </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">been missing since 4-octet ASNs were introduced. </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">IANA has made an Early Allocation of the value 30 (LARGE_COMMUNITY) in </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the "BGP Path Attributes" registry under the "Border Gateway Protocol </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">(BGP) Parameters" group. </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">The draft can be read here: <a href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-large-community">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-large-community</a> </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Additional information about Large BGP Communities can be found here: </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://largebgpcommunities.net/">http://largebgpcommunities.net/</a> </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Starting today (2016.10.11), the following two BGP beacons are available </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">to the general public, with AS_PATH 2914_15562$ </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Both these prefixes have a Large BGP Community attached: </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> 2001:67c:208c::/48 </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> 192.147.168.0/24 </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Large BGP Community - 15562:1:1 </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">The NLNOG RING BGP Looking Glass is running the latest version of BIRD </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">which understands the Large BGP Community Path Attribute. </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">IPv4 LG: <a href="http://lg.ring.nlnog.net/prefix_detail/lg01/ipv4?q=192.147.168.0/24">http://lg.ring.nlnog.net/prefix_detail/lg01/ipv4?q=192.147.168.0/24</a> </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">IPv6 LG: <a href="http://lg.ring.nlnog.net/prefix_detail/lg01/ipv6?q=2001:67c:208c::/48">http://lg.ring.nlnog.net/prefix_detail/lg01/ipv6?q=2001:67c:208c::/48</a> </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">In theory, since this is an optional transitive BGP Path Attribute, all </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the Looking Glass' peers should boomerang the Large Community back to </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the LG. However we currently observe that 50 out of 75 peers propagate </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the Large BGP Community to the LG. </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Relevant Router commands to see if you receive the attribute, or whether </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">one of intermediate networks has stripped the attribute from the route: </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> IOS: show ip bgp path-attribute unknown </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> shows all prefixes with unknown path attributes. </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> IOS #2 - like on route views: </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> route-views>sh ip bgp 192.147.168.0 </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> BGP routing table entry for 192.147.168.0/24, version 98399100 </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Paths: (39 available, best #30, table default) </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Not advertised to any peer </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Refresh Epoch 1 </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> 701 2914 15562 </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> 137.39.3.55 from 137.39.3.55 (137.39.3.55) </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> unknown transitive attribute: flag 0xE0 type 0x1E length 0xC </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> value 0000 3CCA 0000 0001 0000 0001 </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> rx pathid: 0, tx pathid: 0 </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> IOS-XR: (you must look at specific prefixes) </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> RP/0/RSP0/CPU0:Router#show bgp ipv6 unicast 2001:67c:208c::/48 unknown-attributes </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> BGP routing table entry for 2001:67c:208c::/48 </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Community: 2914:370 2914:1206 2914:2203 2914:3200 </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Unknown attributes have size 15 </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Raw value: </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> e0 1e 0c 00 00 3c ca 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 01 </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> JunOS: </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> user@JunOS-re6> show route 2001:67c:208c::/48 detail </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> 2001:67c:208c::/48 (1 entry, 1 announced) </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> AS path: 15562 I </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Unrecognized Attributes: 15 bytes </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Attr flags e0 code 1e: 00 00 3c ca 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 01 </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">A note about router Configurations: </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Ensure you are not fitlering the path attributes, eg: </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">JunOS: </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> [edit protocols bgp] </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> user@junos# delete drop-path-attributes 30 </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">XR: </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> configure </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> router bgp YourASN </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> attribute-filter group ReallyBadIdea ! avoid creating bogons </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> no attribute 30 </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> ! </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> ! </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Contact persons: myself or Jared Mauch or NTT NOC. BGP Session </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">identifier 83.231.213.230 / 2001:728:0:5000::a92 AS 15562. </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Kind regards, </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Job </blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote></blockquote> </div></blockquote></body></html>