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<div>Dear Niall</div>
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<div>Thank you for you explanation, i almost got the idea behind this recommendation as you said to avoid "shaping" 👍😃</div>
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<div>Thank you very much and best regards </div>
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<div>Nabeel Yasin</div>
<div>Tel/WhatsApp +967777006885</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Niall O'Reilly <niall.oreilly@ucd.ie><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 26, 2023 6:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RIPE List <ripe-list@ripe.net><br>
<b>Cc:</b> NABEEL YASIN MOHAMMED AMIN <nabeelyasin@hotmail.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [ripe-list] Re-opened Last Call for Draft Document: RIPE NCC Staff Participation in the RIPE Community</font>
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<div class="PlainText">Dear Nabeel and Colleagues,<br>
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On 25 Jul 2023, at 6:19, NABEEL YASIN MOHAMMED AMIN wrote:<br>
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> [Nabeel]<br>
> Can you elaborate more about principle number 2:<br>
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Gladly.<br>
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> [Nabeel]<br>
> I appreciate if you can provide some examples that lead to this recommendation<br>
<br>
It would be difficult for me to do this, as the proposed document follows<br>
from the RIPE Chair Selection Process of 2020 rather than from a series<br>
of examples.<br>
<br>
This process brought to light a number of concerns about the relationship<br>
between RIPE and the RIPE NCC, which were discussed on the RIPE-list in a<br>
thread starting with this message:<br>
<a href="https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ripe-chair-discuss/2020-May/000271.html" data-auth="NotApplicable">https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ripe-chair-discuss/2020-May/000271.html</a><br>
<br>
The discussion led the RIPE 2020 NomCom to include a recommendation in its<br>
final report<br>
(<a href="https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ripe-list/2021-March/002170.html" data-auth="NotApplicable">https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ripe-list/2021-March/002170.html</a>),<br>
calling on the community to<br>
<br>
> [NomCom 2020]<br>
> Document [its] consensus on the relationship between RIPE and the RIPE NCC;<br>
> in particular consensus how RIPE NCC staff can participate in RIPE including<br>
> nominations for RIPE Chair.<br>
<br>
The proposed document is focused on the second part of this recommendation.<br>
<br>
I note that the proposed document ought to include a link to the NomCom's<br>
final report, rather than simply mentioning it. I am grateful to you,<br>
Nabeel, for bringing to my attention that such a link is missing.<br>
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> [Nabeel]<br>
> 2-In settings that provide guidance to the RIPE NCC, RIPE NCC staff shall<br>
> take care both to disclose their position and to avoid giving direction.<br>
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I can elaborate further, but only by way of personal comment. Except by<br>
happy co-incidence, none of what follows is a matter of RIPE consensus.<br>
<br>
As I see it, RIPE and the RIPE NCC have a mutually supportive relationship,<br>
which is asymmetric. The RIPE NCC acts as the secretariat to RIPE,<br>
operates a regional Internet registry, and performs additional functions<br>
as may be appropriate. It takes direction (or guidance) from RIPE at<br>
both policy and technical levels, respectively through the Policy<br>
Development Process (PDP) and the work-item (NWI) mechanism.<br>
<br>
On the other hand, RIPE may need to depend on the RIPE NCC to provide<br>
advice which it can use to inform any guidance it may wish to give to<br>
the NCC. The second principle, requiring disclosure and "to avoid<br>
giving direction" is intended to protect against the possibility of<br>
"shaping" of RIPE's guidance by NCC staff, while allowing non-directive,<br>
fact-based advice derived from available operational data, from ad-hoc<br>
measurements, or from professional expertise.<br>
<br>
I hope this helps.<br>
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Best regards,<br>
<br>
Niall O'Reilly<br>
RIPE VICE-Chair, co-author of the proposed document<br>
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