<html xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252"> <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"> <style></style> </head> <body lang="EN-IE" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="word-wrap:break-word"> <div class="WordSection1"> Leo<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> It�s an interesting question.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Years ago I used to use mailing lists and email much more heavily, but over time I�ve found it less and less useful. A �busy� discussion topic can generate a huge volume of emails, though how much of that is �of value� vs how much is �noise� is hard to judge, but what�s pretty clear to me personally is that I don�t have the time to read hundreds of emails to try and get to whatever might be of value in there. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Using other tools to �discuss� things makes a lot of sense, however I don�t think that it�s as simple as �replacing� one tool with another. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> As others have pointed out email lists are good because they�re asynchronous and have archives.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> But there�s nothing wrong with trying other tools like Slack / Discord / $thing to �discuss� an issue / policy / $topic<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Are younger members of the RIPE community using the forum and other tools?<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Regards<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Michele<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> --<o:p></o:p> Mr Michele Neylon<o:p></o:p> Blacknight Solutions<o:p></o:p> Hosting, Colocation & Domains<o:p></o:p> <a href="https://www.blacknight.com/">https://www.blacknight.com/</a><o:p></o:p> <a href="https://blacknight.blog/">https://blacknight.blog/</a><o:p></o:p> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072<o:p></o:p> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090<o:p></o:p> Personal blog: <a href="https://michele.blog/">https://michele.blog/</a><o:p></o:p> Some thoughts: <a href="https://ceo.hosting/">https://ceo.hosting/</a><o:p></o:p> -------------------------------<o:p></o:p> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> I have sent this email at a time that is convenient for me. I do not expect you to respond to it outside of your usual working hours.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div id="mail-editor-reference-message-container"> <div> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> From: ripe-list <ripe-list-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Leo Vegoda <leo@vegoda.org> Date: Friday, 26 May 2023 at 09:07 To: ripe-list@ripe.net <ripe-list@ripe.net> Subject: [ripe-list] The Future of Discussion Lists<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Please use caution when opening attachments from unrecognised sources. Dear RIPE community, At yesterday�s community plenary I asked whether mailing lists are sustainable as our main communication channel. For those who were not able to attend, the slide and a recording are available here: - <a href="https://ripe86.ripe.net/wp-content/uploads/presentations/12-Mailing-Lists-RIPE-86.pdf">https://ripe86.ripe.net/wp-content/uploads/presentations/12-Mailing-Lists-RIPE-86.pdf</a> - <a href="https://ripe86.ripe.net/archives/video/1115">https://ripe86.ripe.net/archives/video/1115</a> I am obviously concerned that discussion lists might not serve us with fidelity in the future. If that is the case, I want us to manage any change we need to make. We should not be bounced into rapid change. There was more discussion than I expected. I�m sending this message to ask the questions: - Am I wrong? Are e-mail discussion lists a sustainable communication channel for the foreseeable future? - Are e-mail discussion lists an acceptable technology to people joining the industry? The text below is similar to something I shared with the WG Chairs several months ago. Kind regards,. Leo ripe-781 describes four fundamental principles supporting our policy development process. The first two principles are openness and transparency. Changes in the treatment of e-mail by large industry players presents a challenge to these two principles. In 1992, when ripe-001 was published, anyone could run e-mail services on any Internet infrastructure they could use. It is now far more difficult to run e-mail services. Technology developments, like DMARC, have made discussion mailing lists less effective. Validation failures increase the probability of messages being treated as junk. Subscribers to RIPE's discussion lists will miss messages when their e-mail services provider treats them as junk. When a legitimate message to a RIPE discussion list is treated as junk the sender's voice has been moderated by a third-party mail provider. RIPE's transparency is diminished when its discussion lists are subjected to gatekeeping by third-party mail providers. In 1992, e-mail was an improvement to postal services and telephony protocols. In 2023, we have a wide choice of communication protocols and platforms. I believe that new protocols and platforms are preferred over e-mail by potential participants in RIPE at the start of their careers. We want these people to take part in RIPE. They are the future of coordination for the operators of IP networks in Europe and the rest of the world. We must offer all current and potential participants in RIPE an effective set of tools. Any tools we use must support the principles of openness and transparency. An ideal set of tools might have features like this: 1. An open protocol available for implementation by anyone. 2. Free(ly available) software implementations for popular operating systems (Android, iOS, Linux, macOS, and Windows). 3. Allows a user to choose to have activity pushed to them. They must not be forced to maintain a login to be informed of activity they are interested in. 4. A public archive that cannot be retrospectively edited (barring exceptional situations). While the technology choices need to support the principles of openness and transparency, they do not need to do all the work. Announcements, blog posts, and other kinds of communications can be built into our processes. The combination of technology and process can make the whole more effective. -- To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or change your subscription options, please visit: <a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/">https://mailman.ripe.net/</a><o:p></o:p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html>