I personally would like to see more interactive alternatives be officially recognized, while mail is great for archival and for a-sync communications it is dated and not very alluring to newer players in the market. Another upside is of course that pretty much everyone have mail access while anything else would require agreeing across the community on a tool we are all okay with. But my opinion is strongly that i would like to see something complement the use of mailing lists but not replace. Regards, Mathias W. West digital Management AB. <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid #325FBA; padding-left: 5px; margin: 0px 5px;">--------------------Original message-------------------- From: Leo Vegoda <leo@vegoda.org> Sent: Friday, May 26, 2023 10:07 To: ripe-list@ripe.net Subject: [ripe-list] The Future of Discussion Lists <pre>Dear RIPE community, At yesterday’s community plenary I asked whether mailing lists are sustainable as our main communication channel. For those who were not able to attend, the slide and a recording are available here: - https://ripe86.ripe.net/wp-content/uploads/presentations/12-Mailing-Lists-RIPE-86.pdf - https://ripe86.ripe.net/archives/video/1115 I am obviously concerned that discussion lists might not serve us with fidelity in the future. If that is the case, I want us to manage any change we need to make. We should not be bounced into rapid change. There was more discussion than I expected. I’m sending this message to ask the questions: - Am I wrong? Are e-mail discussion lists a sustainable communication channel for the foreseeable future? - Are e-mail discussion lists an acceptable technology to people joining the industry? The text below is similar to something I shared with the WG Chairs several months ago. Kind regards,. Leo ripe-781 describes four fundamental principles supporting our policy development process. The first two principles are openness and transparency. Changes in the treatment of e-mail by large industry players presents a challenge to these two principles. In 1992, when ripe-001 was published, anyone could run e-mail services on any Internet infrastructure they could use. It is now far more difficult to run e-mail services. Technology developments, like DMARC, have made discussion mailing lists less effective. Validation failures increase the probability of messages being treated as junk. Subscribers to RIPE's discussion lists will miss messages when their e-mail services provider treats them as junk. When a legitimate message to a RIPE discussion list is treated as junk the sender's voice has been moderated by a third-party mail provider. RIPE's transparency is diminished when its discussion lists are subjected to gatekeeping by third-party mail providers. In 1992, e-mail was an improvement to postal services and telephony protocols. In 2023, we have a wide choice of communication protocols and platforms. I believe that new protocols and platforms are preferred over e-mail by potential participants in RIPE at the start of their careers. We want these people to take part in RIPE. They are the future of coordination for the operators of IP networks in Europe and the rest of the world. We must offer all current and potential participants in RIPE an effective set of tools. Any tools we use must support the principles of openness and transparency. An ideal set of tools might have features like this: 1. An open protocol available for implementation by anyone. 2. Free(ly available) software implementations for popular operating systems (Android, iOS, Linux, macOS, and Windows). 3. Allows a user to choose to have activity pushed to them. They must not be forced to maintain a login to be informed of activity they are interested in. 4. A public archive that cannot be retrospectively edited (barring exceptional situations). While the technology choices need to support the principles of openness and transparency, they do not need to do all the work. Announcements, blog posts, and other kinds of communications can be built into our processes. The combination of technology and process can make the whole more effective. -- To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or change your subscription options, please visit: https://mailman.ripe.net/ </pre> </blockquote>