<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=us-ascii"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br><div><div>On Oct 15, 2012, at 6:57 PM, Shane Kerr <<a href="mailto:shane@time-travellers.org">shane@time-travellers.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span style="font-family: Monaco; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important; float: none; ">Open source developers (including me) have said "we would like a place</span><br style="font-family: Monaco; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span style="font-family: Monaco; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important; float: none; ">to discuss open source tools within RIPE".</span><br style="font-family: Monaco; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><br style="font-family: Monaco; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span style="font-family: Monaco; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important; float: none; ">I have not heard any proprietary developers say the same. I don't know</span><br style="font-family: Monaco; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span style="font-family: Monaco; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important; float: none; ">why, but I guess because they already have plenty of venues to connect</span><br style="font-family: Monaco; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span style="font-family: Monaco; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important; float: none; ">with users and each other.</span><br style="font-family: Monaco; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "></blockquote><br></div><div><br></div><div>I believe this is a reasonable argument.</div><div><br></div><div>In this context I wondered what is so specific about the tools that makes it necessary to call out the nature of the distribution license. Jim summarized my question quite succinct: Isn't this a working group to discuss tools, exchange ideas, and approaches?</div><div><br></div><div>The question that I am trying to answer for myself is what is the primitive that you are trying to capture with the strong emphasis on Open Source. I think what you wrote above, and what I've seen in thread, contains part of the answer: there is a cooperative and bottom-up mindset with and between the developers and users of these tools, a different type of relation than the traditional proprietary vendor-custommer relation. </div><div><br></div><div>Oh, by the way, if we are going to exchange ideas about implementation, do we need an IPR policy?</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>--Olaf</div><div><br></div><br><div> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; "><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-collapse: collapse; "><tbody><tr><td rowspan="2" valign="top" style="width: 97.8px; height: 56.3px; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: solid; border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-top-width: 1px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-top-color: rgb(180, 180, 180); border-right-color: transparent; border-bottom-color: transparent; border-left-color: transparent; padding-top: 5px; padding-right: 5px; padding-bottom: 5px; padding-left: 5px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; text-align: right; font: normal normal normal 19px/normal 'Gill Sans'; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#777777"><span style="letter-spacing: 0px; "><b>NLnet<br></b></span><span style="font: normal normal normal 24px/normal 'Gill Sans'; letter-spacing: 0px; ">Labs</span></font></div></td><td valign="top" style="width: 114.5px; height: 18.1px; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: solid; border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-top-width: 1px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-left-width: 0px; border-top-color: rgb(180, 180, 180); border-right-color: transparent; border-bottom-color: rgb(202, 202, 202); border-left-color: transparent; padding-top: 5px; padding-right: 5px; padding-bottom: 5px; padding-left: 5px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; "><span style="letter-spacing: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#777777">Olaf M. Kolkman</font></span></div></td><td valign="top" style="width: 2.3px; height: 18.1px; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: solid; border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-top-width: 1px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-left-width: 0px; border-top-color: rgb(180, 180, 180); border-right-color: transparent; border-bottom-color: rgb(202, 202, 202); border-left-color: transparent; padding-top: 5px; padding-right: 5px; padding-bottom: 5px; padding-left: 5px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#777777"><br></font></div></td></tr><tr><td valign="top" style="width: 114.5px; height: 27.2px; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: solid; border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-top-width: 1px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-top-color: rgb(202, 202, 202); border-right-color: transparent; border-bottom-color: transparent; border-left-color: transparent; padding-top: 5px; padding-right: 5px; padding-bottom: 5px; padding-left: 5px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 9px/normal Helvetica; "><span style="text-decoration: underline; letter-spacing: 0px; "><a href="http://www.NLnetLabs.nl"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#777777">www.NLnetLabs.nl</font></a></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 9px/normal Helvetica; "><span style="text-decoration: underline; letter-spacing: 0px; "><a href="mailto:olaf@NLnetLabs.nl"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#777777">olaf@NLnetLabs.nl</font></a></span></div></td><td valign="top" style="width: 2.3px; height: 27.2px; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: solid; border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-top-width: 1px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-top-color: rgb(202, 202, 202); border-right-color: transparent; border-bottom-color: transparent; border-left-color: transparent; padding-top: 5px; padding-right: 5px; padding-bottom: 5px; padding-left: 5px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#777777"><br></font></div></td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" valign="top" style="width: 234.6px; height: 13.2px; padding-top: 5px; padding-right: 5px; padding-bottom: 5px; padding-left: 5px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 9px/normal Helvetica; "><span style="letter-spacing: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#777777">Science Park 400, 1098 XH Amsterdam, The Netherlands</font></span></div></td></tr></tbody></table><div style="color: rgb(158, 158, 158); margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><br></div></span></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> </div> <br></body></html>