[ripe-list] [anti-abuse-wg] RIPE AA-WG discussion

Hi Cynthia,

I share Volker's PoV to some larger extend: yes, Tobias' email might be
a bit edgy wrt. marketing - but one could also read his first mentioning
of him being Co-Chair as just proper introduction. And the second one as
a reasoning why his email just went to you instead of the AA WG list as
a whole.

Also, it would be interesting - at least for me - which of your postings
triggered Tobias' private response. I am unsure which one of your's at:

https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/anti-abuse-wg/2021-February/date.html

to pick...

ATB,

	-C.

On 22.02.2021 18:23, Cynthia Revström via ripe-list wrote:
> It is possible but I highly doubt it.
> 
>> We at Abusix run Abuse Desk for dozens of Service Providers of any
> size and any type of product. From Cloud to DC-Services, Cable, and so on.
> 
> That sounds so much like marketing and irrelevant if it wasn't.
> Also if it wasn't marketing, why would he ask for me to schedule a video
> call?
> 
> Once again I could be wrong, and if I am, I am sorry, but I can't see
> how this isn't marketing.
> 
> -Cynthia
> 
> 
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 6:18 PM Volker Greimann
> <vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>> wrote:
> 
>     I think you totally misread his mail. It reads to me as a proposal
>     to help you understand the processes used by many providers, not as
>     a sales pitch.
> 
>     Best,
>     -- 
>     Volker A. Greimann
>     General Counsel and Policy Manager
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> 
>     On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 6:12 PM Cynthia Revström via anti-abuse-wg
>     <anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net <mailto:anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net>> wrote:
> 
>         Hi,
> 
>         (intro)
>         Tobias Knecht sent me an email (which this is a reply to)
>         abusing his position as co-chair in order to try to sell me
>         services based on what I said on a mailing list.
> 
>         (mainly towards Tobias)
>         Replying to me based on a mailing list post in order to try to
>         sell me services is bad enough.
>         To do it as a co-chair and then to use the fact that you are
>         co-chair as a selling point is much worse.
> 
>         I find this utterly appalling behaviour from a co-chair of a
>         working group, I didn't reach out to you, you weren't even in
>         the thread at all.
> 
>         also this:
>         > As a Co-Chair I didn't want to jump into the mix on the
>         mailing list, that's why I'm reaching out to you directly.
> 
>         I mean that is sort of the point of co-chairs generally speaking
>         but yeah it is going to look bad if you are trying to sell
>         something, because it is bad.
> 
>         (mainly towards chair team and aa-wg chairs)
>         A co-chair of a working group should absolutely be warned or
>         removed if they abuse their position to sell their services.
> 
>         I also somehow doubt that this is the first time, I could be
>         wrong, but idk why this would be the first time.
> 
>         I hate it when for example Cogent sends me emails trying to sell
>         me services despite me never having contacted them (outside of
>         replying saying I am not interested).
>         But this is more like if the Cogent sales people were co-chairs
>         of the db-wg.
> 
>         Also with a subject like "RIPE AA-WG discussion" I initially
>         thought it was actually about something I said or whatever, in
>         his role as co-chair, it didn't appear like it was a sales email.
> 
>         I have also CC'd the aa-wg and ripe list as this is too
>         appalling to be held private.
> 
>         -Cynthia
> 
> 
>         On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 5:50 PM Tobias Knecht <tk at abusix.com
>         <mailto:tk at abusix.com>> wrote:
> 
>             Hello Cynthia,
> 
>             my name is Tobias. I'm a Co-Chair of the Anti-Abuse Working
>             Group and also Founder and CEO of Abusix.
> 
> 
>             As a Co-Chair I didn't want to jump into the mix on the
>             mailing list, that's why I'm reaching out to you directly. 
> 
>             We at Abusix run Abuse Desk for dozens of Service Providers
>             of any size and any type of product. From Cloud to
>             DC-Services, Cable, and so on.
> 
>             Happy to jump on a call and answer the questions you have
>             and tell you about how our clients handle those things. 
> 
>             Feel free to reach out via email or just pick a time in my
>             calendar: https://calendly.com/tobias-knecht/30min
>             <https://calendly.com/tobias-knecht/30min>
> 
>             Thanks and stay safe.
> 
>             Tobias
> 
>             -- 
> 
> 
>             Tobias Knecht
> 
>             	
> 
>             Founder & CEO
> 
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> 
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