[ripe-list] RIPE Working Group Chair Financial Support call for consensus by 15 June 2020

Hi everyone,

I agree as well with the proposal. Regarding Michele's relevant concerns,
could this be ameliorated by something as simple as annual reporting with a
budget/cost breakdown? This is common practice within the nonprofit world.
Moreover, we could develop guidelines about what the report should include,
and make it public to help keep everything transparent.

What do you all think, especially you Michele and Brian?

Stay safe and well,
-Michael
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On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 1:16 PM Brian Nisbet <brian.nisbet at heanet.ie> wrote:

> Yes, I think the WGs have to be allowed to choose their own Co-Chairs,
> under whatever that method is (separate discussion) and if those Co-Chairs
> abuse something like this, then we have to trust that it will be dealt with.
>
> Whether this is soft, such as a quiet conversation from peers or others,
> or the WG raising it and de-selecting the Co-Chair, then so be it.
>
> Brian
>
> Brian Nisbet
> Service Operations Manager
> HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network
> 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland
> +35316609040 brian.nisbet at heanet.ie www.heanet.ie
> Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com>
> Sent: Thursday 4 June 2020 12:11
> To: Brian Nisbet; hph at oslo.net; ripe-list at ripe.net
> Subject: Re: [ripe-list] RIPE Working Group Chair Financial Support call
> for consensus by 15 June 2020
>
> CAUTION[External]: This email originated from outside of the organisation.
> Do not click on links or open the attachments unless you recognise the
> sender and know the content is safe.
>
>
> Brian
>
> So you think the WG's own mechanisms would be enough to police my concern?
>
> If so that works for me.
>
> Regards
>
> Michele, who is an incredible pessimist at times
>
> --
> Mr Michele Neylon
>
> Blacknight Solutions
>
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> On 04/06/2020, 12:06, "Brian Nisbet" <brian.nisbet at heanet.ie> wrote:
>
>     All,
>
>     Two things on this, both with my "Internet citizen and NCC Member" hat
> firmly on.
>
>     First off, I'm in favour of the change, I think this is very welcome.
>
>     Secondly, I would be against this having any requirements other than
> someone being a WG Co-Chair. While there is work to be done there, as HPH
> discussed at RIPE80, tying it into this proposal would be wrong. The right
> point to discuss things like participation etc. is when the Co-Chair is
> being chosen. It would be awful if a WG chose someone and then a different
> regulation said that they couldn't avail of this subsidy.
>
>     Thanks,
>
>     Brian
>
>     Brian Nisbet
>     Service Operations Manager
>     HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network
>     1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland
>     +35316609040 brian.nisbet at heanet.ie
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>     Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
>
>     ________________________________________
>     From: ripe-list <ripe-list-bounces at ripe.net> on behalf of Michele
> Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com>
>     Sent: Thursday 4 June 2020 11:56
>     To: hph at oslo.net; ripe-list at ripe.net
>     Subject: Re: [ripe-list] RIPE Working Group Chair Financial Support
> call for consensus by 15 June 2020
>
>     CAUTION[External]: This email originated from outside of the
> organisation. Do not click on links or open the attachments unless you
> recognise the sender and know the content is safe.
>
>     I think this isn’t a bad idea, but my only concern would be how easy
> it could be to abuse.
>
>     The process for fellowships states that one of the criteria is “need
> of financial assistance”, but how is that decided?
>
>     I know this topic was brought up in the past and there were quite a
> few people who were vocally opposed to it.
>
>     Personally I’d agree that finances should not be a blocker if someone
> was willing to step up and commit to chairing a WG
>
>     I do, however, worry that some people could be tempted to use the
> financial support as their only motivation for being a WG chair, which is
> obviously the wrong way around.
>
>     So maybe having something in the policy  / process about the person
> having some kind of track record?
>
>     With the fellowship RIPE is looking for “fresh blood’ and it’s
> completely appropriate that the barriers be set at a particular level.
>
>     However in this instance it’s seeking to provide financial support to
> existing community members, so setting some criteria around past
> participation wouldn’t be inappropriate in my opinion.
>
>     Regards
>
>     Michele
>
>
>     --
>     Mr Michele Neylon
>     Blacknight Solutions
>     Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>
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>     Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
>     Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
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>     Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,
> Sleaty Road, Graiguecullen, Carlow, R93 X265,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
>
>     From: ripe-list <ripe-list-bounces at ripe.net> on behalf of Hans Petter
> Holen <hph at oslo.net>
>     Reply to: Hans Petter Holen <hph at oslo.net>
>     Date: Thursday 4 June 2020 at 11:08
>     To: "ripe-list at ripe.net" <ripe-list at ripe.net>
>     Subject: [ripe-list] RIPE Working Group Chair Financial Support call
> for consensus by 15 June 2020
>
>
>     To follow up on the proposal the community plenary at RIPE 80, to
> provide financial support  Working Group (WG) Chairs if needed, I would
> like community input.
>
>     The presentation can be seen at 7:45 into the video at
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fripe80.ripe.net%2Farchives%2Fvideo%2F383%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbrian.nisbet%40heanet.ie%7Cd972283ace464ecd72bd08d8087801ae%7Ccd9e8269dfb648e082538b7baf8d3391%7C0%7C0%7C637268658812322981&sdata=xIyjSYiGwMWAmRsNB3kUbQl5QMq8wVfVBIxf3Vz2F4Y%3D&reserved=0
> <
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fripe80.ripe.net%2Farchives%2Fvideo%2F383%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbrian.nisbet%40heanet.ie%7Cd972283ace464ecd72bd08d8087801ae%7Ccd9e8269dfb648e082538b7baf8d3391%7C0%7C0%7C637268658812322981&sdata=xIyjSYiGwMWAmRsNB3kUbQl5QMq8wVfVBIxf3Vz2F4Y%3D&reserved=0
> >
>
>     In principle, all RIPE Meeting attendees, including RIPE WG Chairs,
> Programme Committee members and presenters are expected to cover the costs
> of participating in a RIPE Meeting. However, in exceptional cases, for
> instance, if a WG would end up with no Chair during a meeting, a WG Chair
> can ask the RIPE Chair to request financial assistance from the RIPE NCC.
> This has mostly been limited to waiving the meeting fee, not for travel and
> accommodation.
>
>     The matter was discussed at RIPE NCC Executive Board meeting December
> 2018 after it was brought to the attention of the RIPE NCC Executive Board
> through one of its members. The board was positive to provide support also
> for travel and accommodation if needed, and tasked the RIPE Chair trough
> EB402 tasked to make a draft procedure.
>
>     The proposal is modelled after the RIPE Fellowship program and can be
> found at:
>
>
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fripe%2Fwg%2Fcc%2Fripe-working-group-chair-financial-support&data=02%7C01%7Cbrian.nisbet%40heanet.ie%7Cd972283ace464ecd72bd08d8087801ae%7Ccd9e8269dfb648e082538b7baf8d3391%7C0%7C0%7C637268658812332983&sdata=Ghhfow3fyTLS37x4VUymZ2W9dOYAzbvuZVFpu5HpvUA%3D&reserved=0
> <
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fripe%2Fwg%2Fcc%2Fripe-working-group-chair-financial-support&data=02%7C01%7Cbrian.nisbet%40heanet.ie%7Cd972283ace464ecd72bd08d8087801ae%7Ccd9e8269dfb648e082538b7baf8d3391%7C0%7C0%7C637268658812332983&sdata=Ghhfow3fyTLS37x4VUymZ2W9dOYAzbvuZVFpu5HpvUA%3D&reserved=0
> >
>
>     If there is consensus from the community on this I will do a formal
> request to the RIPE NCC for such support.
>
>     Hans Petter Holen
>     ad-interim RIPE  Chair
>
>
>
>
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