[ripe-list] RIPE Accountability Task Force Update at RIPE, 75

Malcolm

On 20/10/2017 11:11, Malcolm Hutty wrote:
>
> I don't think anyone would seriously suggest that the NCC ought to be
> bound to implement absolutely anything that comes out of the RIPE
> community without limitation. You are rather tilting at a straw man of
> your own creation here.
Well, whereas I have every faith in the good sense of the RIPE 
community, I think we have to accept that the work of the Accountability 
TF will have a wider audience. And straw men have an alarming habit of 
coming to life when they come within the purview of lawyers, politicians 
and the like.
>
> However, when the taskforce asked NCC staff to look into this, they
> discovered (to their own surprise) that the NCC has no formal document
> of any nature that sets out a normative expectation that the RIPE NCC
> will so much as take community policy into account. That seems a curious
> omission.
I think this lies in the origins of both the RIPE NCC and the PDP. The 
first existed before the second and the second came about while the 
community still knew that the RIPE NCC would Do the Right Thing. In 
these less honourable times, such a document, in whatever form it takes, 
may well be necessary.
>
> You are quite right to point out that the NCC has faithfully followed
> the community's will, and while you and your fellow Board members remain
> in charge, I am sure it will continue to do so. But part of the purpose
> of this exercise is to help create the conditions that make it more
> likely that your legacy in this respect is honoured by those that
> succeed you. Nothing we do can guarantee that will happen, but writing
> down that the NCC's history of implementing community policy is more
> than a mere coincidence of opinion will both help guide future Boards
> and give ammunition to Board members against anyone who argues that the
> NCC should do otherwise.
I have no problem with this. We just have to be exceptionally careful to 
guard against the principle of unintended consequences... something with 
which the community is becoming more and more familiar in recent years.
> Jim correctly pointed out that the community itself, not being an entity
> with legal personality, cannot sign an MoU. That removes one option for
> how such a normative statement might be recorded - but there are several
> others. The NCC does, after all, have contracts with its members.
>
> Personally, I think a better idea that I would like to see considered is
> to write into the RIPE NCC's governing statutes that one of the purposes
> of the NCC is to implement RIPE community policy. Of course this phrase
> would have to be suitable qualified to avoid the pitfall you mention,
> but I do not think that insurmountable, or even difficult: the NCC does
> have lawyers, after all.
And I'm sure it is something that can and will be looked at. As you so 
rightly point out, in these less than honourable times, it does seems a 
curious omission.
>
> Finally, may I gently suggest that the extremely defensive attitude of
> some prominent community members to the work of this Taskforce is not a
> good look. Most of us are reasonably long-standing members of the
> community ourselves, and fully share both its values and well-proven way
> of doing things. Our aim is to support this community, not to undermine it.
I would beware of reading more into emails than was intended by the 
sender. Certainly in my case, I have the greatest respect for the work 
that the Accountability task force is doing and very grateful to those 
who have put in the time. You did however ask for comments and you 
shouldn't be surprised to get them.
>
> As William has said, nothing we come up with will simply go into effect:
> we will simply publish some systematic observations and suggestions for
> the community's consideration. Perhaps you might try to remain a little
> more open to the possibility that our report might be worth the trouble
> of reading, maybe even contain one or two useful ideas?
See the above... and may I gently suggest that you should also try to be 
a little less defensive too. And please don't read more into that 
comment than I intend. Imagine me with a big smile on my face.

Best regards

Nigel