<html xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"> <style></style> </head> <body lang="en-IT" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="word-wrap:break-word;overflow-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;line-break:after-white-space"> <div class="WordSection1"> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Hi Michel,<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">sorry for my late reply.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I repeated the measure with ICMP / TCP / UDP. From the results I got the answer I expected.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Thank you for the explanation.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Roberto<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">ripe-atlas <ripe-atlas-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Michel Stam <mstam@ripe.net><br> <b>Date: </b>Thursday, 9 February 2023 at 11:31<br> <b>To: </b>roberto.lucignani@caleidos.it <roberto.lucignani@caleidos.it><br> <b>Cc: </b>Qasim Lone <qlone@ripe.net>, Alexander Burke via ripe-atlas <ripe-atlas@ripe.net>, Emile Aben <eaben@ripe.net><br> <b>Subject: </b>Re: [atlas] Measurement question<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal">Hey Roberto,<o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">I’m not sure what I’m seeing here, but it could be that the host refuses ICMP or UDP but accepts TCP (websites). <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">Would that explain it?<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">Michel<o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><br> <br> <o:p></o:p></p> <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">On 8 Feb 2023, at 17:56, roberto.lucignani@caleidos.it wrote:<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="IT">Hi Michel,</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I have one last question.</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="IT">In the diagram below_</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="IT"><image001.png></span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="IT"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">The route on the left is marked as “Target not reached” and the one on the right is marked as “Target reached” but from both location I’m able to reach the website hosted on the target, which is the difference ?</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Roberto</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt">From:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt">ripe-atlas <<a href="mailto:ripe-atlas-bounces@ripe.net">ripe-atlas-bounces@ripe.net</a>> on behalf of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:roberto.lucignani@caleidos.it">roberto.lucignani@caleidos.it</a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:roberto.lucignani@caleidos.it">roberto.lucignani@caleidos.it</a>><br> <b>Date:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Wednesday, 8 February 2023 at 16:43<br> <b>To:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Michel Stam <<a href="mailto:mstam@ripe.net">mstam@ripe.net</a>><br> <b>Cc:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Qasim Lone <<a href="mailto:qlone@ripe.net">qlone@ripe.net</a>>, Alexander Burke via ripe-atlas <<a href="mailto:ripe-atlas@ripe.net">ripe-atlas@ripe.net</a>>, Emile Aben <<a href="mailto:eaben@ripe.net">eaben@ripe.net</a>><br> <b>Subject:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Re: [atlas] Measurement question</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Hi Michael,</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">thank you very much for the explanation. I made another measure using UDP and now the collected routes make more sense. I was not aware of the 5 hops without response.</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Glad we spot out a particular case<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Apple Color Emoji"">😊</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Roberto</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt">From:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Michel Stam <<a href="mailto:mstam@ripe.net">mstam@ripe.net</a>><br> <b>Date:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Wednesday, 8 February 2023 at 14:08<br> <b>To:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b><a href="mailto:roberto.lucignani@caleidos.it">roberto.lucignani@caleidos.it</a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:roberto.lucignani@caleidos.it">roberto.lucignani@caleidos.it</a>><br> <b>Cc:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Qasim Lone <<a href="mailto:qlone@ripe.net">qlone@ripe.net</a>>, Emile Aben <<a href="mailto:eaben@ripe.net">eaben@ripe.net</a>>, Alexander Burke via ripe-atlas <<a href="mailto:ripe-atlas@ripe.net">ripe-atlas@ripe.net</a>><br> <b>Subject:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Re: [atlas] Measurement question</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">Hello Roberto,<br> <br> I’ve done the exact same measurement too, using the 3 types of traceroute available (ICMP, UDP and TCP).<br> UDP:<br> (<a href="https://atlas.ripe.net/measurements/49826077/#general">https://atlas.ripe.net/measurements/49826077/#general</a>)<br> <image006.png><br> <br> <br> TCP:<br> (<a href="https://atlas.ripe.net/measurements/49826078/#general">https://atlas.ripe.net/measurements/49826078/#general</a>)<br> <image007.png><br> <br> ICMP:<br> (<a href="https://atlas.ripe.net/measurements/49826076/#general">https://atlas.ripe.net/measurements/49826076/#general</a>)<br> <image008.png><br> <br> The way the traceroute works in Atlas is that if 5 hops have been received without response, the trace skips over to TTL 255 and ends the traceroute. This is what you see with TCP and ICMP. The traceroute stops for lack of response. To prove that, I’ve run the trace again, skipping hops 1-7, for both ICMP and TCP:<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><br> <a href="https://atlas.ripe.net/measurements/49826868/#general">https://atlas.ripe.net/measurements/49826868/#general</a><br> <image009.png><br> <br> <a href="https://atlas.ripe.net/measurements/49826959/#general">https://atlas.ripe.net/measurements/49826959/#general</a><br> <image010.png><br> <br> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc"> <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">100.64.0.0/10 is CGN (Carrier Grade NAT), RFC 6598.<span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">Looking at the traceroute differently:<span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul> <ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc"> <ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="circle"> <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">Hop 1 (AS16509, Amazon EU West, Amazon-02)<span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">Hop 2-7 CGN<span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">Hop 8-9 (AS unknown, but between UK and US, IPROU3-ARIN, so Amazon IP routing 3)<span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">Hop 10 (AS unknown, but between UK and US, IPROU3-ARIN/ARMP-ARIN, Amazon IP routing)<span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">Hop 11-15 CGN<span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">Hop 16 (AS unknown, presumably US, IPROU3-ARIN/ARMP-ARIN, I presume Amazon IP routing still)<span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">Hop 17-19 CGN<span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">Hop 20 (AS13335, Cloudflare US)<span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul> </ul> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"> <span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">So it seems like every cloud zone interconnect (amazon Europe west, US, then Cloudflare) transitted goes through a CGN setup. Not sure but I can understand if this confuses some types of traffic.<br> <br> I don’t think there’s anything wrong with your setup, but the results are interesting. I’ve copied a couple of our researchers onto the mail as they may be interested in this as well.<span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"> <span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"> <span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">Michel<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">On 8 Feb 2023, at 11:33,<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:roberto.lucignani@caleidos.it">roberto.lucignani@caleidos.it</a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br> <br> Hi Michael,<br> for example, one measure ID is this one: 49813750<br> The result says there are 7 HOPS.<br> The result of the traceroute made directly on the host is the following one<br> traceroute to <a href="http://www.madghigno.tech/">www.madghigno.tech</a> (172.67.221.209), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets<br> 1 52.56.0.19 24.303 ms 52.56.0.31 9.067 ms 52.56.0.17 29.663 ms<br> 2 * 100.65.18.192 7.843 ms 100.65.19.176 6.252 ms<br> 3 100.66.8.254 1.563 ms 100.66.8.146 0.697 ms 100.66.8.168 1.449 ms<br> 4 100.66.10.138 8.469 ms 100.66.10.14 5.713 ms 100.66.10.6 8.127 ms<br> 5 100.66.7.77 1.653 ms 100.66.6.173 2.658 ms *<br> 6 100.66.4.75 2.726 ms 100.66.4.87 2.327 ms 100.66.4.89 1.550 ms<br> 7 100.65.10.65 0.533 ms 100.65.11.1 0.857 ms 100.65.10.161 8.616 ms<br> 8 15.230.158.29 2.062 ms 15.230.158.171 5.998 ms 15.230.158.27 1.617 ms<br> 9 15.230.158.164 1.315 ms 52.94.33.120 2.089 ms 15.230.158.40 1.484 ms<br> 10 54.239.101.83 1.440 ms 150.222.65.23 1.358 ms 54.239.101.87 1.897 ms<br> 11 100.91.211.7 1.368 ms 100.91.13.66 1.956 ms 100.91.13.100 5.077 ms<br> 12 100.91.210.16 1.837 ms 100.100.6.119 1.848 ms 52.93.134.81 2.178 ms<br> 13 100.100.73.70 2.434 ms 100.91.203.106 4.546 ms 100.100.85.70 1.139 ms<br> 14 100.91.207.15 1.289 ms * 100.100.72.67 1.767 ms<br> 15 100.100.2.76 3.616 ms 100.91.201.140 1.955 ms 100.91.205.18 1.744 ms<br> 16 99.83.89.19 6.820 ms 100.91.201.1 2.454 ms 100.91.201.97 2.415 ms<br> 17 100.91.211.89 17.823 ms 172.71.176.2 3.200 ms 172.70.160.2 4.450 ms<br> 18 100.100.6.77 1.805 ms 100.100.6.3 1.943 ms 100.100.6.111 2.005 ms<br> 19 100.100.80.70 1.980 ms 100.100.76.134 2.679 ms 100.100.69.134 2.081 ms<br> 20 172.67.221.209 2.799 ms 100.100.89.209 7.318 ms 100.100.89.17 6.869 ms<br> Since the website is served by cloudflare the route may vary between requests but the are always around 18/20 HOPS<br> I don’t understand if I0m missing something here. Let me know if you need further details<br> Regards,<br> Roberto<br> From: Michel Stam <<a href="mailto:mstam@ripe.net">mstam@ripe.net</a>><br> Date: Wednesday, 8 February 2023 at 10:13<br> To: <a href="mailto:roberto.lucignani@caleidos.it">roberto.lucignani@caleidos.it</a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:roberto.lucignani@caleidos.it">roberto.lucignani@caleidos.it</a>><br> Subject: Re: [atlas] Measurement question<br> Hello Roberto,<br> Would you be able to share screenshots/measurement ids so we can have a look?<br> Regards,<br> Michel<br> <br> <br> On 8 Feb 2023, at 09:04,<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:roberto.lucignani@caleidos.it">roberto.lucignani@caleidos.it</a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br> I’m doing some measurement from one of my software probes, the measure is a traceroute to a destination.<br> The results I get are completely different from what I see doing the same traceroute directly on host where the probe is installed. I configured the measure to sue the DNS resolution on the probe..<br> From the Atlas portal I get a traceroute with 7 hops, doing it directly on the host returns 28 hops, for the same destination.<br> Why this difference ?<br> Regards,<br> Roberto<br> --<br> Mail sent with Outlook for Mac<br> This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this message by mistake and delete this message from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free, because information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message that arise as a result of e-mail transmission.<br> -- <br> ripe-atlas mailing list<br> <a href="mailto:ripe-atlas@ripe.net">ripe-atlas@ripe.net</a><br> <a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/">https://mailman.ripe.net/</a><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </blockquote> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> </div> </body> </html>