[opensource-wg] Hello!

Hello Patrick,

I have never seen people neither introducing themselves upon joining public mailing-lists, nor saying hello to newcomers.

This may look strange on first sight, but if you count the number of people involved, the complexity is quadratic. If 10 people were already in the list and other 10 joined, you're asking for 145 e-mails just for welcoming. This doesn't scale. The same way OSPF doesn't scale for routing the whole Internet. 

This is not isolated to mailing-lists – some people on Facebook, after being added to a group, like to post there "thanks for letting me in". It's annoying when you see 50 such messages every day and the actual topics are lost in the noise. There were even groups where posting this "thank you for accepting" message would get you an instant ban.

This is also not a discord server where people's activity can be measured by how much are they terminally online. Many of us are here for just coordinating and discussing stuff, and when there is nothing to say, then we say nothing. This just means that we currently don't have anything to say, not that we are inactive.

I can see how this may be strange and unwelcoming for some people, especially if you're neurotypical. Anyway, this is what happens at most of the mailing-lists I'm in and I don't see any reason to have it here differently.

Also, just by the way, all the archives are public. You are not spying on us by subscribing and I doubt that anybody would feel spied on by somebody subscribing to a mailing-list and not saying hello. More than that – it's perfectly ok to just subscribe and listen in.

The best way to introduce yourself is actually to bring a topic or to contribute to one. With that, we can react and have a meaningful discussion. With just a hello, don't be surprised that nobody reacted – to not react to hellos is the right thing to do to keep the noise ratio low.

Thank you for your understanding.
Maria


On 13 February 2024 16:31:39 GMT-05:00, Patrick Masson <patrick.masson at apereo.org> wrote:
>Maybe the perspective of a newbie might be of some help--or maybe not--but...
>
>I discovered RIPE NCC from an article on the Open Source Initiative's website, "The ultimate list of reactions to the Cyber Resilience Act [1], which led me to a page on the European Commission's website [2].
>
>I had to do a bit of hunting around to find out more about RIPE NCC and the organization's open source activities (as I would expect), but a quick search [3] led me right to the Open Source WG [4].
>
>The information there must have been complete/relevant enough to entice me to join. I will admit I had to do a bit more searching/investigating to learn more about RIPE as the page and working group noted that the list and WG were for the "RIPE community" and "open source projects related to the RIPE community." So MAYBE if I was a bit more shy (or considerate) I would not have joined as neither are exactly in line with my area of work/development/interest, i.e., education technology, higher education, research computing, etc. However as open source was the theme and I am interested in learning and working more with folks in the EU, I thought I would reach out.
>
>Once I joined the list (easy to do), I introduced myself; which I feel is the considerate thing to do, just so no one feels I am spying on them.
>
>I was very happy to get a friendly reply from the WG chair that not only welcomed me and introduced himself (and the list) but also included a few topics of shared interest which sparked a few more exchanges. I felt like the list was active and grateful for my participation.
>
>So, if my experience is any indication, I think "on-boarding" went pretty well.
>
>If I were to offer any suggestions,
>
>- I can understand how, if the reply is only to me, others might not know (and therefore be concerned) if I received a reply. I can also understand not wanting to pollute the list. Maybe create a generic reply so the list members can see the new member was welcomed? I'd also encourage others to say hello as well. Both Martin and Luka said Hi. I assume there are three people active on the list!?
>
>- The WG page *could* be a bit more descriptive so that those unfamiliar with RIPE or the discussions could learn more. But this might be a never ending quest, as I suspect there will always be additional information that could help the next person. I did search the list archives [5] before actually joining to try and determine if the discussions would actually be of interest to me--and if my interests would be of interest to you all. I am not sure if other potential members would do this.
>
>I hope this helps,
>Patrick
>
>
>1. https://blog.opensource.org/the-ultimate-list-of-reactions-to-the-cyber-resilience-act/
><https://blog.opensource.org/the-ultimate-list-of-reactions-to-the-cyber-resilience-act/>2. https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/have-your-say/initiatives/13410-Cyber-resilience-act-new-cybersecurity-rules-for-digital-products-and-ancillary-services/F3376593_en
><https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/have-your-say/initiatives/13410-Cyber-resilience-act-new-cybersecurity-rules-for-digital-products-and-ancillary-services/F3376593_en>3. https://www.google.com/search?q=%22RIPE+NCC%22+%22open+source%22_
><https://www.google.com/search?q=%22RIPE+NCC%22+%22open+source%22_>4. https://www.ripe.net/community/wg/active-wg/os/
>5. https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/opensource-wg/
>
>
>On 2/13/24 12:25 PM, Martin Winter wrote:
>> Luka,
>> 
>> there isn't a clear structure and most of the Working Group Activity
>> is happening at the RIPE Meetings.
>> 
>> But in general, a long time ago I started the WG with the idea to have
>> better communication between Open Source Developers and Internet
>> Providers. Traditionally, we focus on Open Source Software focused in
>> the networking space, but there are no fixed rules on what is included
>> and what not. We tried to adjust a bit based on our personal
>> experience, background and feedback from the community here on the
>> list, during the meetings and privately.
>> If you go tohttps://www.ripe.net/community/wg/active-wg/os/, then you
>> see our charter (and some outdated examples of Open Source Projects).
>> 
>> Most of it is centered around the meetings and the presentations
>> there. (And there are some awesome presentation in the RIPE Archive to
>> watch)
>> (And if this is not clear: All the presentations can be watched live
>> through streaming during the meeting and are available afterwards in
>> the RIPE archive at
>> https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/ripe-meetings/archive/  )
>> 
>> Sometimes it's an update on some Open Source project, an Outlook to a
>> future version, discussion on funding or licensing, failed projects
>> (always great to learn from failures from others!), Community
>> building, Testing, etc. The list is not conclusive and we are open to
>> anything anyone can think would help an open source project for this
>> audience (we try to limit it a bit to Open Source in the network
>> space, but there are no clear guidelines and we are happy to discuss
>> how far this stretches. Also, we are only humans and some projects can
>> be used in interesting and unusual ways)
>> 
>> Here on the mailing list, similar topics are welcome. You will also
>> see discussion about potential events at other conferences or
>> discussion on some rules for conduct (as templates for projects).
>> 
>> So basically, the community is what we want it to be. So sorry, no
>> formal member guide.
>> 
>> Regards,
>>     Martin Winter
>>     Open Source WG Co-Chair
>> 
>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2024 at 12:13 PM Luka Perkov<luka.perkov at bit.hr>  wrote:
>>> Hello Martin,
>>> 
>>> Thanks for sharing, I am still struggling to figure out how the
>>> working group is exactly organized. Could you perhaps create a new
>>> member guide so we can foster and grow the community further together?
>>> 
>>> Luka
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 2:58 AM Martin Winter<mwinter at netdef.org>  wrote:
>>>> Luka,
>>>> 
>>>> not all replies need to copy the whole list. I sent him some
>>>> information and hoped to have encouraged him enough to actually show
>>>> up at some future RIPE meeting. New members are always welcome and we
>>>> are happy to help, but CC'ing the whole list every time with the same
>>>> information is just noise in my view.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>>    Martin Winter
>>>>    Open Source WG Co-Chair
>>>> 
>>>> On Sat, Feb 10, 2024 at 1:57 PM Luka Perkov via opensource-wg
>>>> <opensource-wg at ripe.net>  wrote:
>>>>> Hello Patrick,
>>>>> 
>>>>> It is a pleasure to have you here and we wish you a warm welcome!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Chairs, it would be much appreciated if you could also welcome the new
>>>>> members and include any other noteworthy details so we can grow this
>>>>> community and make the Internet a better place.
>>>>> 
>>>>> With best regards,
>>>>> Luka Perkov
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 11:59 PM Patrick Masson
>>>>> <patrick.masson at apereo.org>  wrote:
>>>>>> Hello list,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I just discovered this list and thought I would send out an email to
>>>>>> introduce myself (https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrick-masson-apereo).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I am currently serving as the executive director at the Apereo
>>>>>> Foundation (https://www.apereo.org/), a US based non-profit working to
>>>>>> advance open source software in academic and research institutions.
>>>>>> Apereo has several projects and members (colleges and universities)
>>>>>> located in Europe and we commonly participate in a varsity of European
>>>>>> free and open source communities and events.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Looking forward to chatting with you all,
>>>>>> Patrick
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> | |||| | | || | | || | || | | || ||| | | | || | | || ||| || | || | | |||
>>>>>> | | | | || |
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Patrick Masson
>>>>>> Executive Director
>>>>>> Apereo Foundation
>>>>>> 9450 SW Gemini Dr PMB 98572
>>>>>> Beaverton, OR 97008-7105
>>>>>> Mobile: +1 (970) 4-MASSON
>>>>>> Website:www.apereo.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> opensource-wg mailing list
>>>>>> opensource-wg at ripe.net
>>>>>> https://mailman.ripe.net/
>>>>>> 
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>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> 
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>-- 
>| |||| | | || | | || | || | | || ||| | | | || | | || ||| || | || | | ||| | | | | || |
>
>Patrick Masson
>Executive Director
>Apereo Foundation
>9450 SW Gemini Dr PMB 98572
>Beaverton, OR 97008-7105
>Mobile: +1 (970) 4-MASSON
>Website: www.apereo.org
-- 
Maria Matejka (she/her) | BIRD Team Leader | CZ.NIC, z.s.p.o.
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