[opensource-wg] hackathon discussion at RIPE 78 opensource-wg session

Hi Martin,

Please see comments inline, marked with [cue]

On 1/11/19, 7:24 AM, "Martin Winter" <mwinter at netdef.org> wrote:

    On 9 Jan 2019, at 16:09, Charles Eckel (eckelcu) via opensource-wg 
    wrote:
    
    > Happy New Year Everyone!
    >
    > RIPE has hosted several very successful RIPE NCC Hackathons. I have 
    > helped IETF and MEF start and run a series of Hackathons. I spoke 
    > about these at RIPE 76. There was a suggestion from Vesna at that time 
    > to create a common page on which we post information about such 
    > events. The current RIPE hackathon page 
    > (https://labs.ripe.net/hackathons) is a good start. I would be happy 
    > to add to this.
    >
    > I would like to propose having some time at RIPE 78 to discuss open 
    > source efforts like these various hackathons, what is working well, 
    > what is not, and how we can improve them. For example, the IETF 
    > hackathons need to be better about turning hackathon code into 
    > contributions to projects that are easy to find, use, and contribute 
    > to any time rather than just in the context of the hackathon. Another 
    > example is competition. Some people think hackathons are perceived as 
    > being too competitive and non-inclusive. I do not agree, and I try to 
    > make it very clear that the IETF hackathons are collaborative and open 
    > to newcomers, but the fact I need to keep stating this means there is 
    > a problem and an opportunity to do something better.
    
    [Answering this on a personal level - not as chair] I’m always a bit 
    torn between the usefulness of Hackathons. I also have to admit, that I 
    never attended a RIPE hackathon (Sorry, Vesna! I really should…)
    
    On one side, I think they are interesting to bring newcomers up to speed 
    on some interesting topic (as some hackathons are more towards getting 
    participation) while at other times I feel more like hackathons are a 
    exploitation for companies to give them ideas to monetize. 

[cue] True; however, I have worked hard to make sure the IETF hackathons do not fall into this category, both in terms of the projects and the atmosphere. Vesna has done similar with RIPE hackathons. We hack on things related to IETF and RIPE rather than on any company's proprietary platform. That said, we can certainly do more to dispel and avoid misconceptions. This is one topic I think would be good to explore further.
    
    Sometimes it 
    also just feels like a group of people using the chance to finish some 
    work (ie prototype implementation for a IETF draft) which they could do 
    anywhere else as well. Just some last minute finishing up the work.

[cue] Yes, but I see that as a good thing. In the case of IETF hackathons, they give us a chance to put other priorities aside and focus with peers on getting things done that move IETF work forward. 
    
    But it might be an interesting discussion why someone attends (or does 
    not attend or stopped attending) hackathons.

[cue] Agreed. There is definitely room for improvement. Constructive criticism and new ideas would be great.
    
    > What do others think about having some time in the opensource-wg to 
    > share information, ideas, issues, and potential solutions? Would it be 
    > better to have a workshop? What about doing both?
    >
    > Martin and Ondrej, I understand this is your call to make, so I hope 
    > you do not mind me posting here to help get a sense of interest and 
    > help refining the idea.
    
    [back to WG-chair mode]
    We are “only” the chairs, trying to figuring out what’s best or 
    most interesting to community.
    
    So pushing this a bit back to the community:
    
    Opinions? Should we host a round-table discussion on this? Or some other 
    form of discussion?
    Anyone wants to talk about good or bad experiences on a hackathon?

[cue] I obviously am in favor of it. I hope others chime in as well.
    
    Regards,
        Martin Winter
    
Cheers,
Charles