<html xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=windows-1251"> <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"> <style></style> </head> <body lang="en-DE" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="word-wrap:break-word"> <div class="WordSection1"> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Dear Viktoriia,<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I don’t think anyone is suggesting to allow transfers and later revert them – there is no real procedure for this and it would likely cause a lot of issues down the line.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">What most people seem to be advocating now – and what the RIPE NCC is currently doing – is that additional due diligence should be carried out, which means that special care should be taken that identities are verified and sanctions screening is carried out correctly.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I understand that IP addresses being stolen could be a problem, however I have not heard of any cases where this has actually happened so far. But here’s an alternative consideration: If a Ukrainian ISP needs additional funding to rebuild and wants to sell IP addresses to enable this, your proposal would potentially cause the exact issues you’re trying to prevent.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Your proposal would essentially freeze assets – similar to what sanctions might do – but of the people who you are trying to support. This can have severe financial consequences for the affected parties, and I really think that this would need to be an opt-in thing (but also that it would need to be defined in a separate and clear policy). <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Matthias Merkel <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Viktoriia Opanasiuk <viktoriia.opanasiuk@gmail.com><br> <b>Date: </b>Thursday, 27. October 2022 at 17:50<br> <b>To: </b>Matthias Merkel <matthias.merkel@staclar.com><br> <b>Cc: </b>ncc-services-wg@ripe.net <ncc-services-wg@ripe.net><br> <b>Subject: </b>Re: [ncc-services-wg] IP adress transferring in Ukraine<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Dear Mattias, <o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">responding on </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">«As this only affects LIRs, I doubt there will be significant participation by non-LIRs» I must say that it affects all internet service providers that use IP resources. In Ukraine there are more than 5 000 registered ISPs, but not all of them are LIRs. </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> <span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> <span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The situation that we have now is that when russian troops withdraw from our territory, they dismantle and take with them not only washing machines, but also telecom equipment, TV- and radio-transmitters, leaving people who live there without any information channels and means of communication. We have to </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt">re-build</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> telecom and internet infrastructure, and yes, we could bring new equipment there, but if the IP addresses of local Internet Providers </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt">will be</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> transferred to other parties, we will not be able to restore even our critical infrastructure there, and there is no place to get new IPv4 addresses.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> <span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> <span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Therefore any solutions that involve allowing transfers now and somehow reverting them later are not solving this immediate problem that we have.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> <span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> <span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Viktoriia Opanasiuk<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">χς, 27 ξκς. 2022 γ. β 16:59, Matthias Merkel <<a href="mailto:matthias.merkel@staclar.com" target="_blank">matthias.merkel@staclar.com</a>>:<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"> <div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt">Hi Viktoriia,</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">RIPE operates on consensus policies. A new policy cannot be adopted if there is a meaningful number of objections like clearly there is here.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">As has been explained in the in-person meetings, a freeze cannot be implemented until a corresponding policy is in place, as this may otherwise open up the RIPE NCC to civil liability. Of course, there is also a risk that a freeze could negatively impact Ukrainian LIRs (for example ones who may want to sell parts of their IP space to fund continued operations).</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">For the reasons above, I personally don’t think that a blanket ban will be a good solution. Instead, the RIPE NCC should conduct increased due diligence on transfers from Ukraine and other high-risk regions. From what I understand, the NCC has already implemented these measures.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Most of the recent emails have already identified themselves as Ukrainian, some including a reg-id or at least mentioning they were an LIR as well. As this only affects LIRs, I doubt there will be significant participation by non-LIRs. </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Matthias Merkel</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Staclar, Inc.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">ncc-services-wg <<a href="mailto:ncc-services-wg-bounces@ripe.net" target="_blank">ncc-services-wg-bounces@ripe.net</a>> on behalf of Viktoriia Opanasiuk <<a href="mailto:viktoriia.opanasiuk@gmail.com" target="_blank">viktoriia.opanasiuk@gmail.com</a>><br> <b>Date: </b>Thursday, 27. October 2022 at 15:51<br> <b>To: </b><a href="mailto:ncc-services-wg@ripe.net" target="_blank">ncc-services-wg@ripe.net</a> <<a href="mailto:ncc-services-wg@ripe.net" target="_blank">ncc-services-wg@ripe.net</a>><br> <b>Subject: </b>[ncc-services-wg] IP adress transferring in Ukraine</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Hi everyone! <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Looking at such a broad discussion around the issue of the decision to protect Ukrainian IP resources, I want to add a comment and a wish.<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">First of all, I would like to clarify the issue a little. We are only talking about temporarily freezing the transfer of IP addresses until a solution to correctly identify and prohibit risky transfers is found and implemented.<br> <br> And in order to understand who exactly is against the temporary freeze or who supports it , it would be very good if you wrote a few words about who exactly those who express their position represent.<br> For example, does the company have LIR status, is the company an ISP provider, and if so, in which regions of Ukraine does it provide services. If the LIR is not a ISP provider, does it continue its work in Ukraine? This is purely to understand whether the position of the participant in the discussion is from a representative of the Ukrainian community and what part of this community he represents. <o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><br> Otherwise, this discussion may slightly distort the real problems that exist in Ukraine today.<br clear="all"> <o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">-- <o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Viktoriia Opanasiuk<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><br clear="all"> <o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">-- <o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Η οξβΰγξώ,<o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Β³κςξπ³� Ξοΰνΰρώκ<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html>