<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"><style></style></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1>Hello Stephane,<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>Then you should probably work in improving the speed the Mutual Legal Assistance Request of European Investigative Order is processed. When it comes directly from a foreign LEA we will look to it and decide on a case by case situation (it also depends on the information we have and if given the reason for the request).<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>Kind regards,<o:p></o:p>Mark<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p><div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>From: ncc-services-wg [mailto:ncc-services-wg-bounces@ripe.net] On Behalf Of ROBINOT Stephane DCPJ SDLC Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2018 14:22 To: netravnen+lists@gmail.com Cc: ncc-services-wg@ripe.net Subject: [ncc-services-wg] Get a warrant or direct request ?<o:p></o:p></div></div><o:p> </o:p>First of all, I want to say that I like the way discussions take place within this group. We all have an opinion based on our experience and day to day job which really help adressing the issue thru its various ways. regarding warrant, that I hear a lot, you have to bear in mind that there is nothing such an international warrant. We are working within UE in order to somehow get one, meaning a way for LEA to adress a request to a company or someone living in another european country than the one the investigator is working. Question remains about how to deal with a no answer. Anyway, today, the only way for an investigator to get answers to its question is by asking his judge to send a Mutual Legal Assistance Request or European Investigative Order to his fellow magistrate in the other country so the police forces will open a case just to get the information back. It may take some months til the request is sent and answered. unfortunatly, it doesn't fit with the need of speed while working cybercrime such as CP where data is moved one month to another. So one question might also be : would you agree answering an official request coming directly from a foreign LEA ? It will help for sure if the answer is yes but it won't change the issue that is global cartography of a network as we speak. Who should I turn to in order to be assured that John Doe, renting this server I am asking you about, isn't renting another server providing exactly the same thing in another country? You might answer RIPE NCC (that might have to hire people to deal with more legal request, and maybe raise the contract fees, who knows). Sure but we are now facing registrants that are not providing the data at all to the registries. I know my writing is going way beyond sara's question (sorry about that) but I'm just trying to explain what our issues are. We just need help from all stakeholders in order to find the best and proper way to work. stephane<o:p></o:p><div> <img width=561 height=254 id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D460A7.43DA4550"><o:p></o:p></div><o:p> </o:p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #309147 1.5pt;padding:4.0pt 0in 0in 0in;margin-top:7.5pt;margin-bottom:7.5pt;display:inline-block'><div>Pour une administration exemplaire, pr�servons l'environnement. <o:p></o:p></div><div>N'imprimons que si n�cessaire. <o:p></o:p></div></div> -------- Message original -------- Sujet: [INTERNET] Re: [ncc-services-wg] legal adress De : <a href="mailto:netravnen+lists@gmail.com">netravnen+lists@gmail.com</a> Pour : <a href="mailto:stephane.robinot@interieur.gouv.fr">stephane.robinot@interieur.gouv.fr</a>, <a href="mailto:ncc-services-wg@ripe.net">ncc-services-wg@ripe.net</a> Date : 10/10/2018 12:20 <o:p></o:p><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>On 10/10/2018 11:23 AM, ROBINOT Stephane DCPJ SDLC wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>But here is my question : If, to you, the legal address is a personal<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>data, are you also thinking the same way about the telephone number<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>which is so far kept for registrar abuse contact phone ?<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>If phone number is registered in company name/RegID. Definitely not.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>Speaking about sole trader, if I understand well your point and go<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>beyond, the name by itself might also be considered as a personal data<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>as it is also a way to identify the person.<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Hard to argue for or against.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>In its core essence. I will say Yes.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>To me, legal address is just a way to be assured that the official<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>request are sent to the correct place<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Idea: Publish link to local business registry instead.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Alternative: as Hessler wrote. 'get a warrant'<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Duplicate data results: If data is re-entered into the RIPE NCC<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Database. When they are often accessible from local business registry.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>It does not _really_ make sense.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>As previously mentioned. Down-going rate in data quality is definitely<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>unavoidable over time.<o:p></o:p></pre><o:p> </o:p></div></div></body></html>