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@Niall : i understand your point and clearly this is not an easy
topic when it comes to define what is personal data.<br>
But here is my question : If, to you, the legal adress is a personal
data, are you also thinking the same way about the telephone number
which is so far kept for registrar abuse contact phone ?<br>
<br>
Speaking about sole trader, if i understand well your point and go
beyond, the name by itself might also be considerated as a personal
data as it is also a way to identify the person.<br>
<br>
To me, legal adress is just a way to be assured that the official
request are sent to the correct place <br>
<div class="moz-signature"><br>
<img src="cid:part1.07020005.03040300@interieur.gouv.fr"
border="0"></div>
<br style="line-height: 0pt;"><div style="border-top: 2px solid
rgb(48, 145, 71); display: inline-block; color: rgb(48, 145, 71);
font-size: x-small; padding: 5px; margin: 10px auto; font-family:
Arial,Garamond,Times New Roman,Times,serif;"
class="signature_ecolo_classname"><div>Pour une administration
exemplaire, préservons l'environnement.
</div><div>N'imprimons que si nécessaire.
</div></div><br>
-------- Message original --------<br>
<b>Sujet: </b>[INTERNET] ncc-services-wg Digest, Vol 79, Issue 5<br>
<b>De : </b><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ncc-services-wg-request@ripe.net">ncc-services-wg-request@ripe.net</a><br>
<b>Pour : </b><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ncc-services-wg@ripe.net">ncc-services-wg@ripe.net</a><br>
<b>Date : </b>10/10/2018 09:20<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:mailman.491.1539156012.30916.ncc-services-wg@ripe.net"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Send ncc-services-wg mailing list submissions to
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ncc-services-wg@ripe.net">ncc-services-wg@ripe.net</a>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mailman.ripe.net/">https://mailman.ripe.net/</a>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ncc-services-wg-request@ripe.net">ncc-services-wg-request@ripe.net</a>
You can reach the person managing the list at
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ncc-services-wg-owner@ripe.net">ncc-services-wg-owner@ripe.net</a>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of ncc-services-wg digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: sara proposal and question to Randy (Niall O'Reilly)
2. Re: sara proposal and question to Randy (Carlos Fria?as)
3. Re: sara proposal and question to Randy (Randy Bush)
4. Re: sara proposal and question to Randy (Randy Bush)
5. back to randy (ROBINOT Stephane DCPJ SDLC)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2018 15:16:58 +0100
From: "Niall O'Reilly" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:niall.oreilly@ucd.ie"><niall.oreilly@ucd.ie></a>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ncc-services-wg@ripe.net">ncc-services-wg@ripe.net</a>
Subject: Re: [ncc-services-wg] sara proposal and question to Randy
Message-ID: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:D607D348-09D8-456C-B412-BB48896A2345@ucd.ie"><D607D348-09D8-456C-B412-BB48896A2345@ucd.ie></a>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On 9 Oct 2018, at 14:43, ROBINOT Stephane DCPJ SDLC wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">If we all agree that personnal ie individual data has to be removed from direct access and that the legal address has to be published,
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
It is difficult to agree in general to both of these points, as they may,
in specific cases, contradict each other.
The crux of the matter appears to be that the legal address of a sole trader
is precisely and inevitably personal data.
Best regards,
Niall O'Reilly
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2018 17:03:23 +0100 (WEST)
From: Carlos Fria?as <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cfriacas@fccn.pt"><cfriacas@fccn.pt></a>
To: ROBINOT Stephane DCPJ SDLC <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:stephane.robinot@interieur.gouv.fr"><stephane.robinot@interieur.gouv.fr></a>
Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ncc-services-wg@ripe.net">ncc-services-wg@ripe.net</a>
Subject: Re: [ncc-services-wg] sara proposal and question to Randy
Message-ID:
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:alpine.LRH.2.21.1810091700510.29142@gauntlet.corp.fccn.pt"><alpine.LRH.2.21.1810091700510.29142@gauntlet.corp.fccn.pt></a>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
On Tue, 9 Oct 2018, ROBINOT Stephane DCPJ SDLC wrote:
(...)
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
To randy, I would like to say that I don't understand what he pmeans by
"whois is useless and should die".
As I am new in this group, I might have missed something. Could you
explain what you mean ?
regards
cv
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
Greetings,
I'm also curious about if he meant "whois should die, let's get everything
onto rdap quickly", or if he means: "whois and all other registration
information protocols should die, so that nobody sees anything anymore".
:-)))
Regards,
Carlos
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Pour une administration exemplaire, pr?servons l'environnement.
N'imprimons que si n?cessaire.
-------- Message original --------
*Sujet: *[INTERNET] ncc-services-wg Digest, Vol 79, Issue 3
*De : *ncc-services-wg-request@ripe.net
*Pour : *ncc-services-wg@ripe.net
*Date : *09/10/2018 12:00
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Send ncc-services-wg mailing list submissions to
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ncc-services-wg@ripe.net">ncc-services-wg@ripe.net</a>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mailman.ripe.net/">https://mailman.ripe.net/</a>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ncc-services-wg-request@ripe.net">ncc-services-wg-request@ripe.net</a>
You can reach the person managing the list at
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ncc-services-wg-owner@ripe.net">ncc-services-wg-owner@ripe.net</a>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of ncc-services-wg digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. @EXT: 2018-05 New Policy Proposal (Publication of Legal
Address of Internet Number Resource Holder) - updating the
proposal? (Marcolla, Sara Veronica)
2. Re: @EXT: 2018-05 New Policy Proposal (Publication of Legal
Address of Internet Number Resource Holder) - updating the
proposal? (Randy Bush)
3. Re: @EXT: 2018-05 New Policy Proposal (Publication of Legal
Address of Internet Number Resource Holder) - updating the
proposal? (Carlos Fria?as)
4. @EXT: RE: 2018-05 New Policy Proposal (Publication of Legal
Address of Internet Number Resource Holder) - updating the
proposal? (Marcolla, Sara Veronica)
5. Re: @EXT: 2018-05 New Policy Proposal (Publication of Legal
Address of Internet Number Resource Holder) - updating the
proposal? (Nik Soggia)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2018 15:46:47 +0000
From: "Marcolla, Sara Veronica" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Sara.Marcolla@europol.europa.eu"><Sara.Marcolla@europol.europa.eu></a>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:'ncc-services-wg@ripe.net'">"'ncc-services-wg@ripe.net'"</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ncc-services-wg@ripe.net"><ncc-services-wg@ripe.net></a>
Subject: [ncc-services-wg] @EXT: 2018-05 New Policy Proposal
(Publication of Legal Address of Internet Number Resource Holder) -
updating the proposal?
Message-ID:
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ED32B03A4D1A7448B86844EED9D4845D4EA5BF82@COIMBRA.europol.eu.int"><ED32B03A4D1A7448B86844EED9D4845D4EA5BF82@COIMBRA.europol.eu.int></a>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi everyone,
All the comments exchanged in the list made me thinking a lot about the wording of this proposal. I have noticed that the lively discussion around the policy is bringing a lot of attention on the dichotomy between the individual (which I agree completely, should be protected in their fundamental rights, with provisions such as the GDPR and others), and the company/corporation. It seems to me so far that many of us would indeed support the idea of having the legal address published of companies, but having concerns about personal data. The aim of this proposal is indeed to focus on companies, not individuals, and even the smallest company has to be registered as such (if not for other reasons, for tax reasons). Individuals will be anyways protected by a hierarchically higher set of rules: the fundamental rights, such as those championed by GDPR for example.
At this point I am asking whether you support a proposal, the clarifies that only the legal address of companies will be published, and that states clearly that individuals information will be protected? After all, the reasoning here is that if a resource holder is registered with a national company registry, they have a legal address which can be published. This legal address is usually publicly available anyhow and can be then validated by the RIPE NCC.
Looking forward to hear the feedback to this idea for an amendment to the proposal.
Sara
*******************
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Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and delete the relevant e-mails from any computer. This message does not constitute a commitment by Europol unless otherwise indicated.
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2018 09:30:39 -0700
From: Randy Bush <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:randy@psg.com"><randy@psg.com></a>
To: "Marcolla, Sara Veronica" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Sara.Marcolla@europol.europa.eu"><Sara.Marcolla@europol.europa.eu></a>
Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:'ncc-services-wg@ripe.net'">"'ncc-services-wg@ripe.net'"</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ncc-services-wg@ripe.net"><ncc-services-wg@ripe.net></a>
Subject: Re: [ncc-services-wg] @EXT: 2018-05 New Policy Proposal
(Publication of Legal Address of Internet Number Resource Holder) -
updating the proposal?
Message-ID: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:m2y3b8e6z4.wl-randy@psg.com"><m2y3b8e6z4.wl-randy@psg.com></a>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">At this point I am asking whether you support a proposal, the
clarifies that only the legal address of companies will be published
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">not particularly
the contract is between the ncc and the registrant; not the community
and the registrant.
whois (not the irr, which is confuddled with it in the ripe registry)
is useless and should die.
randy
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2018 22:50:25 +0100 (WEST)
From: Carlos Fria?as <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cfriacas@fccn.pt"><cfriacas@fccn.pt></a>
To: "Marcolla, Sara Veronica" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Sara.Marcolla@europol.europa.eu"><Sara.Marcolla@europol.europa.eu></a>
Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:'ncc-services-wg@ripe.net'">"'ncc-services-wg@ripe.net'"</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ncc-services-wg@ripe.net"><ncc-services-wg@ripe.net></a>
Subject: Re: [ncc-services-wg] @EXT: 2018-05 New Policy Proposal
(Publication of Legal Address of Internet Number Resource Holder) -
updating the proposal?
Message-ID:
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:alpine.LRH.2.21.1810082238040.25543@gauntlet.corp.fccn.pt"><alpine.LRH.2.21.1810082238040.25543@gauntlet.corp.fccn.pt></a>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
On Mon, 8 Oct 2018, Marcolla, Sara Veronica wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hi everyone,
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Greetings,
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">All the comments exchanged in the list made me thinking a lot about the
wording of this proposal. I have noticed that the lively discussion
around the policy is bringing a lot of attention on the dichotomy
between the individual (which I agree completely, should be protected
in their fundamental rights, with provisions such as the GDPR and
others), and the company/corporation. It seems to me so far that many of
us would indeed support the idea of having the legal address published
of companies, but having concerns about personal data. The aim of this
proposal is indeed to focus on companies, not individuals, and even the
smallest company has to be registered as such (if not for other reasons,
for tax reasons). Individuals will be anyways protected by a
hierarchically higher set of rules: the fundamental rights, such as
those championed by GDPR for example.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Well, LIR addresses are already published on the RIPE NCC's website.
LIR's customers addresses may not be part of whois.ripe.net... well...
i know some LIRs tend to protect their customers identity, to prevent
competitors to approach them with better contractual conditions (this is
not the case of the LIR i work for, which is a NREN)
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">At this point I am asking whether you support a proposal, the clarifies
that only the legal address of companies will be published, and that
states clearly that individuals information will be protected? After
all, the reasoning here is that if a resource holder is registered with
a national company registry, they have a legal address which can be
published. This legal address is usually publicly available anyhow and
can be then validated by the RIPE NCC.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">I see added value in "validation by the RIPE NCC", despite the natural
cost this will bring...
However, i wonder what should be the procedure if RIPE NCC finds that
company X registers a new company Y in a different country/economy
resorting to a "virtual office" address.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Looking forward to hear the feedback to this idea for an amendment to the proposal.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Good luck!
Best Regards,
Carlos
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Sara
*******************
DISCLAIMER : This message is sent in confidence and is only intended for the named recipient. If you receive this message by mistake, you may not use, copy, distribute or forward this message, or any part of its contents or rely upon the information contained in it.
Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and delete the relevant e-mails from any computer. This message does not constitute a commitment by Europol unless otherwise indicated.
*******************
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2018 07:41:15 +0000
From: "Marcolla, Sara Veronica" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Sara.Marcolla@europol.europa.eu"><Sara.Marcolla@europol.europa.eu></a>
To: 'Carlos Fria?as' <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cfriacas@fccn.pt"><cfriacas@fccn.pt></a>, <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:'ncc-services-wg@ripe.net'">"'ncc-services-wg@ripe.net'"</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ncc-services-wg@ripe.net"><ncc-services-wg@ripe.net></a>
Subject: [ncc-services-wg] @EXT: RE: 2018-05 New Policy Proposal
(Publication of Legal Address of Internet Number Resource Holder) -
updating the proposal?
Message-ID:
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ED32B03A4D1A7448B86844EED9D4845D4EA5C59B@COIMBRA.europol.eu.int"><ED32B03A4D1A7448B86844EED9D4845D4EA5C59B@COIMBRA.europol.eu.int></a>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Carlos,
I understand the logic behind the protection of LIRs for competition reasons - however I am positively sure that this right cannot be considered anywhere close to the right to privacy and protection of individuals.
Regarding your comment on the company change, I believe that the case of change of holdership should firstly have to pass the existing RIPE NCC due diligence checks for transfers/mergers. It would then still be useful to actually have the legal address of this new company, as it helps to identify the company who is the registered resource holder.
Sara
-----Original Message-----
From: Carlos Fria?as [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:cfriacas@fccn.pt">mailto:cfriacas@fccn.pt</a>]
Sent: 08 October 2018 23:50
To: Marcolla, Sara Veronica
Cc: '<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ncc-services-wg@ripe.net">ncc-services-wg@ripe.net</a>'
Subject: Re: [ncc-services-wg] @EXT: 2018-05 New Policy Proposal (Publication of Legal Address of Internet Number Resource Holder) - updating the proposal?
On Mon, 8 Oct 2018, Marcolla, Sara Veronica wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hi everyone,
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Greetings,
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">All the comments exchanged in the list made me thinking a lot about the
wording of this proposal. I have noticed that the lively discussion
around the policy is bringing a lot of attention on the dichotomy
between the individual (which I agree completely, should be protected
in their fundamental rights, with provisions such as the GDPR and
others), and the company/corporation. It seems to me so far that many of
us would indeed support the idea of having the legal address published
of companies, but having concerns about personal data. The aim of this
proposal is indeed to focus on companies, not individuals, and even the
smallest company has to be registered as such (if not for other reasons,
for tax reasons). Individuals will be anyways protected by a
hierarchically higher set of rules: the fundamental rights, such as
those championed by GDPR for example.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Well, LIR addresses are already published on the RIPE NCC's website.
LIR's customers addresses may not be part of whois.ripe.net... well...
i know some LIRs tend to protect their customers identity, to prevent
competitors to approach them with better contractual conditions (this is
not the case of the LIR i work for, which is a NREN)
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">At this point I am asking whether you support a proposal, the clarifies
that only the legal address of companies will be published, and that
states clearly that individuals information will be protected? After
all, the reasoning here is that if a resource holder is registered with
a national company registry, they have a legal address which can be
published. This legal address is usually publicly available anyhow and
can be then validated by the RIPE NCC.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">I see added value in "validation by the RIPE NCC", despite the natural
cost this will bring...
However, i wonder what should be the procedure if RIPE NCC finds that
company X registers a new company Y in a different country/economy
resorting to a "virtual office" address.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Looking forward to hear the feedback to this idea for an amendment to the proposal.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Good luck!
Best Regards,
Carlos
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Sara
*******************
DISCLAIMER : This message is sent in confidence and is only intended for the named recipient. If you receive this message by mistake, you may not use, copy, distribute or forward this message, or any part of its contents or rely upon the information contained in it.
Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and delete the relevant e-mails from any computer. This message does not constitute a commitment by Europol unless otherwise indicated.
*******************
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">*******************
DISCLAIMER : This message is sent in confidence and is only intended for the named recipient. If you receive this message by mistake, you may not use, copy, distribute or forward this message, or any part of its contents or rely upon the information contained in it.
Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and delete the relevant e-mails from any computer. This message does not constitute a commitment by Europol unless otherwise indicated.
*******************
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2018 10:13:48 +0200
From: Nik Soggia <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:registry@telnetwork.it"><registry@telnetwork.it></a>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:'ncc-services-wg@ripe.net'">"'ncc-services-wg@ripe.net'"</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ncc-services-wg@ripe.net"><ncc-services-wg@ripe.net></a>
Subject: Re: [ncc-services-wg] @EXT: 2018-05 New Policy Proposal
(Publication of Legal Address of Internet Number Resource Holder) -
updating the proposal?
Message-ID: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:e3905e73-8c1d-6784-e3a5-aacf47215507@telnetwork.it"><e3905e73-8c1d-6784-e3a5-aacf47215507@telnetwork.it></a>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed
Il 08/10/18 17:46, Marcolla, Sara Veronica ha scritto:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">After all, the reasoning here is that if a resource holder is registered with a national company registry, they have a legal address which can be published.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Maybe the key to make everyone happy is the word "can" instead of
"must". Why not make it optional?
If companies are in good faith or they like the idea then they will use
it, and they will also be happy to maintain the data.
Otherwise it will be just a waste of time on another
wrong/outdated/malicious dataset.
How fun it is to check the validity of a validated address?
Life is too short, right?
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">This legal address is usually publicly available anyhow and can be then validated by the RIPE NCC.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Duplicating data instead of referencing it breaks the first database
design rule.
Companies are forced by law to keep their chamber of commerce data up to
date. THAT is the best source of information and it is readily
available. Don't reinvent the wheel.
This proposal is can of worms:
- same data in many places is difficult to maintain and prone to errors
- doesn't stop bad actors
- quickly provides massive information to data harvesters and scammers
In my opinion this proposal is not the right way to identify a resource
holder the way you dreamt.
It's not a elegant solution and in general I have a bad feeling about
it, imagine a blunt tool that not only will make a poor job but also
will bring a lot of frustration.
Ok for me if it is optional, otherwise I'm against.
Regards,
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2018 09:28:54 -0700
From: Randy Bush <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:randy@psg.com"><randy@psg.com></a>
To: ROBINOT Stephane DCPJ SDLC <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:stephane.robinot@interieur.gouv.fr"><stephane.robinot@interieur.gouv.fr></a>
Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ncc-services-wg@ripe.net">ncc-services-wg@ripe.net</a>
Subject: Re: [ncc-services-wg] sara proposal and question to Randy
Message-ID: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:m2in2bcce1.wl-randy@psg.com"><m2in2bcce1.wl-randy@psg.com></a>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">To randy, I would like to say that I don't understand what he pmeans by
"whois is useless and should die".
As I am new in this group, I might have missed something. Could you
explain what you mean ?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
i already did
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/db-wg/2018-September/006036.html">https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/db-wg/2018-September/006036.html</a>
randy
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2018 09:33:56 -0700
From: Randy Bush <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:randy@psg.com"><randy@psg.com></a>
To: ROBINOT Stephane DCPJ SDLC <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:stephane.robinot@interieur.gouv.fr"><stephane.robinot@interieur.gouv.fr></a>
Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ncc-services-wg@ripe.net">ncc-services-wg@ripe.net</a>
Subject: Re: [ncc-services-wg] sara proposal and question to Randy
Message-ID: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:m2h8hvcc5n.wl-randy@psg.com"><m2h8hvcc5n.wl-randy@psg.com></a>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
and, just to make clear from whence i come, let me quote another old
dog.
We should not be building surveillance technology into standards.
Law enforcement was not supposed to be easy. Where it is easy, it's
called a police state. -- Jeff Schiller
i.e., if you want the details of my company's contract with the ncc,
show up in amsterdam with a warrant.
randy
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 09:20:07 +0200
From: ROBINOT Stephane DCPJ SDLC <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:stephane.robinot@interieur.gouv.fr"><stephane.robinot@interieur.gouv.fr></a>
To: Randy Bush <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:randy@psg.com"><randy@psg.com></a>
Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ncc-services-wg@ripe.net">ncc-services-wg@ripe.net</a>
Subject: [ncc-services-wg] back to randy
Message-ID: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:5BBDA827.5030906@interieur.gouv.fr"><5BBDA827.5030906@interieur.gouv.fr></a>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello Randy,
I think there is a tiny difference between a police state and what is
really happening today within LEA (meaning Police but also prosecutor,
investigative judges...) and the national and international legal
safeguards.
We are just thinking on how to agree on a common understanding before
some cohercitives actions are to be taken such as seizure of an entire
network within a company.
In my day to day job, and i'm not saying this universal TRUTH, I have
build relationship with companies that really happy to be informed about
what I'm working on and what is currently running thru their servers,
what, in others countries, could be identified as providing assistance
to a criminal.
I think that what RGPD is bringing is terrific for the good of all,
including LEA that will have to create partnerships with stakeholders in
order to keep the work done.
have a nice day.
Pour une administration exemplaire, pr?servons l'environnement.
N'imprimons que si n?cessaire.
-------- Message original --------
*Sujet: *[INTERNET] Re: [ncc-services-wg] sara proposal and question to
Randy
*De : *Randy Bush <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:randy@psg.com"><randy@psg.com></a>
*Pour : *ROBINOT Stephane DCPJ SDLC <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:stephane.robinot@interieur.gouv.fr"><stephane.robinot@interieur.gouv.fr></a>
*Copie ? : *ncc-services-wg@ripe.net
*Date : *09/10/2018 18:33
</pre>
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<pre wrap="">and, just to make clear from whence i come, let me quote another old
dog.
We should not be building surveillance technology into standards.
Law enforcement was not supposed to be easy. Where it is easy, it's
called a police state. -- Jeff Schiller
i.e., if you want the details of my company's contract with the ncc,
show up in amsterdam with a warrant.
randy
</pre>
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