[ncc-services-wg] Re: Allow DNSMON services to monitor ENUM domains

ncc-services-wg-admin at ripe.net wrote on 08/10/2007 13:00:03:

> > Are these commercial offerings? We are a customer of UltraDNS/ 
> > Neustar for
> > DNS provision and it has never been suggested that we use their 
> > monitoring
> > services.
> 
> Has anyone asked for a quote?
> 
I didn't know there was a service there, so I'm unlikely to ask for a 
quote.

> > Any new service from Centr or ICANN/IANA would (a) take too long
> > to set up, and (b) be subject to the same arguments you are making 
> > against
> > DNSMON.
> 
> I don't agree the same arguments could be made. But even if they 
> were, that would be a problem for the organisation concerned. It 
> wouldn't be the NCC's problem. :-)
> 
> > Sorry to worry you Jim ;-) What I was trying to point out was that 
> > this is
> > already an established service, widely used by the RIPE LIR 
> > community and
> > beyond. If we prevent it being extended to ENUM then we are left 
> > without a
> > viable way of monitoring those nameservers.
> 
> REALLY?!?! Are you seriously telling me that Nominet cannot monitor 
> the UK's ENUM servers without buying DNSMON? I very much hope not.... 
> What did Nominet do to keep an eye on the .uk name servers before 
> DNSMON came along?
> 
You are wilfully misunderstanding me here. We can and do monitor our 
nameservers. What we can't get is the global picture that DNSMON provides, 
and this allows us to determine the scope of any incident affecting them. 
Anyway, the argument here is not whether a service to monitor nameservers 
is required, but who provides it.

> Besides, whether DNSMON is widely used or not is beside the point. 
> It's not a core NCC activity. If the NCC spins off DNSMON into an 
> independent, self-funded entity, that's fine. But when DNSMON is part 
> of a monopoly RIR and (partly?) funded from that monopoly's 
> membership fees.... We can see where that is headed. And that's 
> before we consider the competition aspects.
> 
We are approaching this from different angles. As the operator of a major 
DNS infrastructure I want to use whatever systems are available to ensure 
I have the best view of that infrastructure. I also want to be able to 
extend those systems to monitoring my new DNS infrastructure. I presume 
you are speaking as a RIPE NCC board member, and I think it is valuable to 
raise the point of a potential monopoly. But still, DNSMON exists and 
nothing else comes close. If we aren't able to extend it to cover new 
services then they will (potentially) be poorer as a result.

> > I see a difference here. DNS hosting is an established field in which
> > there are numerous providers. I am not aware of any other providers 
> > of a
> > service similar to DNSMON. It may be that the market is not mature 
> > enough
> > yet. In that case, if RIPE is the only place we can go to for this 
> > then
> > let us use it.
> 
> I've suggested a number of other possibilities. Perhaps they could be 
> approached? There might be a stronger case for DNSMON if it could be 
> shown that nobody else was willing or able to provide the service at 
> a reasonable price.
> 
I'm willing to consider other providers. But even if there were other 
services I would continue to use DNSMON.

> Your comments about the market not being mature are very true Ian. 
> This is all the more reason for the NCC to keep out. Its presence 
> deters others from coming forward and prevents a free, competitive 
> market from being established.
> 
> Your argument is a bit like saying everybody should support 
> Manchester United because they're the biggest and most successful 
> team with the best players. Which I know will annoy you Ian as your 
> football affiliations rest elsewhere... :-)

Notts County (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notts_County) are the oldest 
professional football club in the world. They are not the biggest today by 
quite some way. I don't want to take the football analogy too far, but it 
shows that things change. It may be that someone can provide a better 
service and DNSMON will be eclipsed. Until then I want to be able to use 
it.