<html xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252"> <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"> <style></style> </head> <body lang="DE" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="word-wrap:break-word"> <div class="WordSection1"> Thanks for these words and I could not agree more!<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div id="mail-editor-reference-message-container"> <div> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> Von: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> im Auftrag von Alexander Leefmann <alex@nycro.de> Datum: Donnerstag, 16. Mai 2024 um 19:14 An: Kai Siering <k.siering@team.mail.de> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] 2024/2025 Activity plan and budget<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Hello Kai, I am following multiple RIPE (NCC) mailing list for 10+ years and your mail pulled the trigger on my side to actually raise my voice for the first time. On 16 May 2024, at 18:18, Kai Siering via members-discuss wrote: > Am 14.05.24 um 16:57 schrieb Fergal Cunningham: >> We do see the Activity Plan and Budget receives much less feedback than the Charging Scheme, which causes problems when we are asked to cut the budget but have not received much feedback on where those cuts should come from. We will make a bigger effort to get feedback on the plan this year and we will be hoping to see a good discussion around it in the Autumn. > > Frankly, I'd go with "cut the Budget by 15% for the next cycle, by 30% the one after, based on the 2024 Budget". It's obviously money that matters, so follow the "lawnmower principle" and apply the cuts across the board. It might be more difficult here and there (long-term contracts?), so maybe some budgets must suffer more ("IT Services"? "Community Building"? Why does the LIR portal alone costs 6.1% of each member's fee? Will the Internet stop working if RIPE NCC stops providing K-root? Stop the travelling, all but one RIPE Meeting per year be virtual-only, the one im presence to take place somewhere in the Netherlands where it's cheapest for the NCC to run such an event). With 20k members, a relative cut across all positions is the most logical approach to me ... Your arguments look to me all in favour of keeping the status quo. Or even making the internet a worse place as has already has become over the last years. Let me explain what I mean with that. > [�]so maybe some budgets must suffer more ("IT Services"? "Community Building"? Why does the LIR portal alone costs 6.1% of each member's fee?[...] Well if we stop community building we actively stop inviting urgently needed people who are not part of this community (the internet) for maximum profit. And the current discussion shows that we need new non money driven ideas. Right now everybody and his mother are talking about "fair payment" but no one says "even if this will hurt me financially, it is fair and for the better of the community". My motivation to build networks and being part of communities around the internet(tm) is to provide a way of communication for others who solve actual problems of our society. Do I make a living out of that, sure but that was, is and will never be the reason why I am doing what I am doing. So community building is very important to get rid of people like you and me. We do not have the ideas to actually solve the problem of the internet-buy-out. > [�]Will the Internet stop working if RIPE NCC stops providing K-root?[...] Not in the short term. But stopping to run a community financed and driven root server is one more step towards a internet of the companies. And I am happy to see a part of my fee going into at least slow down the move into that direction. > [�]Stop the travelling, all but one RIPE Meeting per year be virtual-only, the one im presence to take place somewhere in the Netherlands where it's cheapest for the NCC to run such an event)[...] I feel sorry for you, that you never had the experience sitting down with people having a dinner or a drink, talking about this and that and by accident you developed an idea which you would never had when you only had a meeting agenda for a time boxed 90 minute video call. I am financially not in the position of attending any RIPE meeting since I am self employed and just have the funds for attending. Still I strongly support those meetings. Because I had the mentioned experience. Oh also I support the travel of the RIPE NCC staff. I once organised a two day workshop at a former employer and it was worth every cent which RIPE NCC invested in those two days. So I am glad that I pay my part to support those workshops in presence. > [�]With 20k members, a relative cut across all positions is the most logical approach to me ...[...] I totally agree. But in my opinion the cut should not be at a non profit organisation like RIPE NCC which is doing so much good for the free internet. Maybe we as the individuals and organisations of which the internet is build of should realise that if we don't stop to put profit first on our agenda will actually destroy the internet and therefore in the end also the basis of our whole business. Call me naive but THIS is our real problem. And all emails I read over the last years where in the direction of something like "I don't wanna pay for the community, and if I have to we need to agree on a model that results in me paying the least amount." Sure companies are financing the party and I understand that they want to make some profit. But ROI and "survival of the fittest" are no good judgment points if we talk about the internet as a free communication tool. For me being part of such an invaluable asset like a free and affordable internet for everyone comes with a responsibility. The responsibility to put my personal interests not at the first place. This includes paying for something which is with no direct benefit to me or my business. And if I am not able to do that, that is fine, but then just step down and leave the party. > > I'm still not amused this discussion taking place only now; shrinking membership == rising costs per member was being voiced for some years, even by the EB, yet the Budget wasn't reduced accordingly, neither was the membership offered options on where to cut the expenses (even if that meant services not being offered anymore). It is the same in every community. Nobody says something as long as his personal interests aren't on the line. Been there done that for ages. > > Am 16.05.24 um 07:53 schrieb Hank Nussbacher: >> Rather than discuss the charging scheme, we need to discuss the activity plan and budget. The 2024 activity plan and budget are already set but we need to already discuss the activity plan and budget for 2025. > > Yes, but this time, it should be _voted_ on (which means more work since _alternatives_ need to be presented; yes/no won't solve any issues). And the EB should receive a clear message from the members whether to reduce the money spend and if so, by which amount in what timeframe. Lessons learned from the upcoming GM ... Are you actually willing to invest the time and money needed to develop the alternatives you mentioned? Without payment. Out of your own pocket? To be honest mails like yours make me wanna find a solution to become more invested into RIPE (NCC) just to avoid that the mindset which I read from your mail get in control. Because I have the opinion that financial driven people should not have any power of something which can't be rebuild with money after they destroyed it. Last but not least: I don't know you, so non of the above is directed to you personally. It is just a coincident the your mail pulled the trigger on my side, could have been everybody else. So if you feel offended, I am sorry, that is not my intention. It is just, that I had to speak up. Regards � arl _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net <a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/">https://deu01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmembers-discuss&data=05%7C02%7CSebastian-Becker%40telekom.de%7C049a56289c524b989ded08dc75cba9d7%7Cbde4dffc4b604cf68b04a5eeb25f5c4f%7C0%7C0%7C638514764786047464%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=oP97zudhFNYKoem5N8Zj7uG2tZ2%2Fhw7zcGm8NNOXN7g%3D&reserved=0</a> Unsubscribe: <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/sebastian-becker%40telekom.de"> https://deu01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fmembers-discuss%2Fsebastian-becker%2540telekom.de&data=05%7C02%7CSebastian-Becker%40telekom.de%7C049a56289c524b989ded08dc75cba9d7%7Cbde4dffc4b604cf68b04a5eeb25f5c4f%7C0%7C0%7C638514764786059297%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=hspTSV25BXAvG4PnVO1CA1%2FrFoZYp64TIV8OsVSLLnA%3D&reserved=0</a><o:p></o:p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html>