<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"> <style></style> </head> <body lang="RU" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72" style="word-wrap:break-word"> <div class="WordSection1"> I completely understand. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> I don’t see a big difference between rollback of IP allocation or rollback of RIPE membership it is the same set of rules. <o:p></o:p> If you insist to change one action done in the past why somebody else cant insist to change other action done also in the past ?<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> most of the LIRs are not satisfied - sorry it's completely speculative. I see a couple of very loud people in this mailing list but it is not a majority at all. <o:p></o:p> Also a see a result of voting and it shows that your statement completely wrong.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of sdy@a-n-t.ru Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2024 8:50 PM To: Evgeniy Brodskiy <Evgeniy.Brodskiy@kyivstar.net> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [comms-circle] Re: [ncc-announce] [GM] Executive Board Meeting to Discuss Charging Scheme Input from Members <o:p> </o:p> You still don't understand.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> We didn't just agree to the rules (Ok), we all became equal members of the community. And this community can change the rules in their common interests.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Obviously, most of the LIRs are not satisfied with the current situation with a lack of access to resources and growing payments.<o:p></o:p> So the rules need to be changed. And apparently 7% of those who own 84% of the resources will have to pay much more or release scarce resources.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> It's in the best interest of the whole community.<o:p></o:p> ----<o:p></o:p> Serbulov Dmitry<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> > Sorry but actually it is talk about members fee. It is named - <o:p></o:p> > "members fee" and it is members fee.<o:p></o:p> ><o:p> </o:p> > I don’t think current situation is discriminatory.<o:p></o:p> > You Ok with membership rules that gave your ability to be a LIR but <o:p></o:p> > not Ok with IP addresses allocation rules which exists in the same <o:p></o:p> > time. How it is possible ?<o:p></o:p> > And more if in the moment you became a LIR why you chose RIPE as RIR <o:p></o:p> > for registry service if this organization so discriminatory from your <o:p></o:p> > point of view ??<o:p></o:p> ><o:p> </o:p> > I can't say for other large LIRs but our company obtained IPs <o:p></o:p> > according to RIPEN rules (yes it is not a gift it is procedure) to <o:p></o:p> > provide access to Internet for our subscribers.<o:p></o:p> > And we don't hold or sell IPs we use them to provide access for people <o:p></o:p> > to internet. Hope same as you...<o:p></o:p> ><o:p> </o:p> ><o:p> </o:p> > -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p> > From: members-discuss <<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>> On Behalf Of <o:p></o:p> > <a href="mailto:sdy@a-n-t.ru">sdy@a-n-t.ru</a><o:p></o:p> > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2024 7:19 PM<o:p></o:p> > To: Evgeniy Brodskiy <<a href="mailto:Evgeniy.Brodskiy@kyivstar.net">Evgeniy.Brodskiy@kyivstar.net</a>><o:p></o:p> > Cc: <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><o:p></o:p> > Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [comms-circle] Re: [ncc-announce] [GM] <o:p></o:p> > Executive Board Meeting to Discuss Charging Scheme Input from Members<o:p></o:p> ><o:p> </o:p> > It is not talk about "different members fee"!<o:p></o:p> ><o:p> </o:p> > It is talking about payment for network resources that we need, but we <o:p></o:p> > have not, but, as fact, pay for it use by another LIRs.<o:p></o:p> ><o:p> </o:p> > Let's not forget that the RIPE community and NCC is a partner <o:p></o:p> > organization for network management and interaction. And it is not at <o:p></o:p> > all a gathering of big players and address speculators.<o:p></o:p> ><o:p> </o:p> > Our main task is to organize non-discriminatory access to resources <o:p></o:p> > from different networks.<o:p></o:p> > If, as a result, now 7% of LIRs took 84% of the address resources, <o:p></o:p> > then we have clearly been doing something wrong all these years!<o:p></o:p> ><o:p> </o:p> > So, at least, another 93% LIRs must to think what is role of NCC is?<o:p></o:p> ><o:p> </o:p> >> If it is all not about money maybe we can stop talking about <o:p></o:p> >> different members fee ?<o:p></o:p> >><o:p> </o:p> >> ________________________________<o:p></o:p> >> От: members-discuss <<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>> от имени <o:p></o:p> >> <a href="mailto:sdy@a-n-t.ru">sdy@a-n-t.ru</a> <<a href="mailto:sdy@a-n-t.ru">sdy@a-n-t.ru</a>><o:p></o:p> >> Отправлено: вторник, мая 14, 2024 6:38:26 PM<o:p></o:p> >> Кому: Jan Zorz - Go6 <<a href="mailto:jan@go6.si">jan@go6.si</a>><o:p></o:p> >> Копия: <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> <<a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a>><o:p></o:p> >> Тема: Re: [members-discuss] [comms-circle] Re: [ncc-announce] [GM] <o:p></o:p> >> Executive Board Meeting to Discuss Charging Scheme Input from Members<o:p></o:p> >><o:p> </o:p> >> Dear Jan.<o:p></o:p> >><o:p> </o:p> >> We have alternative look!<o:p></o:p> >> If we all pay equal sum - lets devide RIPE ipv4 and AS numbers to <o:p></o:p> >> equal parts for every NCC member!<o:p></o:p> >><o:p> </o:p> >> P.S.<o:p></o:p> >> Please - do not repeat paranoid idea: payment sum = number of votes.<o:p></o:p> >><o:p> </o:p> >> We live in 21 century. Money now is not a fetish! When you vote for <o:p></o:p> >> government in your country, do you proceed your votes numbers from <o:p></o:p> >> your salary and taxes too?<o:p></o:p> >><o:p> </o:p> >>> On 14. 5. 24 15:05, ROSKOMNADZOR LIMITED wrote:<o:p></o:p> >>>> If big organization pay a large amount of taxes - are they have <o:p></o:p> >>>> more votes? Im think so - NO.<o:p></o:p> >>><o:p> </o:p> >>> If you have more shares in the company - you have more votes :)<o:p></o:p> >>><o:p> </o:p> >>>><o:p> </o:p> >>>> In proportional model - you pay FIXED amount PER RESOURCE.<o:p></o:p> >>>> Why Big members must have more votes? They pay same as other!<o:p></o:p> >>><o:p> </o:p> >>> If big members would pay significantly higher members fee price (due <o:p></o:p> >>> to larger IPv4 space), then it's only logical that they would <o:p></o:p> >>> request proportionally more votes at the GM :)<o:p></o:p> >>><o:p> </o:p> >>> Do we really want that?<o:p></o:p> >>><o:p> </o:p> >>> Cheers, Jan<o:p></o:p> >>><o:p> </o:p> >>><o:p> </o:p> >>><o:p> </o:p> >>> _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p> >>> members-discuss mailing list<o:p></o:p> >>> <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><o:p></o:p> >>> <a href="https://lis/">https://lis/</a><o:p></o:p> >>> ts.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmembers-discuss&data=05%7C02%7CEv<o:p></o:p> >>> g <o:p></o:p> >>> eniy.Brodskiy%40kyivstar.net%7C5e94b025607a4aeff95308dc74fada14%7Cf8<o:p></o:p> >>> f <o:p></o:p> >>> 9bd573bba4300a6ec3b8e70a30986%7C0%7C0%7C638513867961755557%7CUnknown<o:p></o:p> >>> % <o:p></o:p> >>> 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BTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=o08p50r0jMeHbNLIlDMdb<o:p></o:p> >>> we%2BuBbzD%2FPB%2Fs0Ev7F3hNQ%3D&reserved=0<o:p></o:p> >>> ction.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Fopti<o:p></o:p> >>> o <o:p></o:p> >>> ns%2Fmembers-discuss%2Fsdy%2540a-n-t.ru&data=05%7C02%7CEvgeniy.Brods<o:p></o:p> >>> k<o:p></o:p> >>> iy%40kyivstar.net%7C5e94b025607a4aeff95308dc74fada14%7Cf8f9bd573bba4<o:p></o:p> >>> 3 <o:p></o:p> >>> 00a6ec3b8e70a30986%7C0%7C0%7C638513867961780584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZs<o:p></o:p> >>> b <o:p></o:p> >>> 3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3<o:p></o:p> >>> D<o:p></o:p> >>> %7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=qB7IxvJBzFfp%2FEsAWIfw9N8MTYHvE%2B4Rdd%2FBWt1RMR<o:p></o:p> >>> 0<o:p></o:p> >>> %3D&reserved=0><o:p></o:p> >>><o:p> </o:p> >><o:p> </o:p> >><o:p> </o:p> >> -----------------------------<o:p></o:p> >> С уважением Сербулов Дмитрий<o:p></o:p> >> ООО "Альфа Нет Телеком"<o:p></o:p> >> +7(498)785-8-000 раб.<o:p></o:p> >> 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7C638513867961794729%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQ<o:p></o:p> >> I <o:p></o:p> >> joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Zy8xvCPq<o:p></o:p> >> %<o:p></o:p> >> 2FOxlABKuDtSfytkedyghGLmByNpVlCp9aRM%3D&reserved=0<https://eur01.safe<o:p></o:p> >> links.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Feur01.safel%2F&data=0<o:p></o:p> >> 5%7C02%7CEvgeniy.Brodskiy%40kyivstar.net%7Cf7215f491f3e49d0f18308dc75<o:p></o:p> >> 07a197%7Cf8f9bd573bba4300a6ec3b8e70a30986%7C0%7C0%7C63851392284488399<o:p></o:p> >> 9%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI<o:p></o:p> >> 6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3MNjvsSRG35oyi6O7RlBYUY4FW<o:p></o:p> >> oBb7gZdI9OIAdqdW4%3D&reserved=0 <o:p></o:p> >> inks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ripe.net%2Fmailm<o:p></o:p> >> a <o:p></o:p> >> n%2Foptions%2Fmembers-discuss%2Fevgeniy.brodskiy%2540kyivstar.net&dat<o:p></o:p> >> a<o:p></o:p> >> =05%7C02%7CEvgeniy.Brodskiy%40kyivstar.net%7C5e94b025607a4aeff95308dc<o:p></o:p> >> 7<o:p></o:p> >> 4fada14%7Cf8f9bd573bba4300a6ec3b8e70a30986%7C0%7C0%7C6385138679617993<o:p></o:p> >> 5<o:p></o:p> >> 1%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI<o:p></o:p> >> 6<o:p></o:p> >> Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=EQrPzOKI2oLeDbT%2F4KutSGRio<o:p></o:p> >> 6<o:p></o:p> >> DjAh753R3XYH6Mq7A%3D&reserved=0><o:p></o:p> >><o:p> </o:p> >><o:p> </o:p> ><o:p> </o:p> ><o:p> </o:p> > -----------------------------<o:p></o:p> > С уважением Сербулов Дмитрий<o:p></o:p> > ООО "Альфа Нет Телеком"<o:p></o:p> > +7(498)785-8-000 раб.<o:p></o:p> > +7(495)940-92-11 доп.<o:p></o:p> > +7(925)518-10-69 сот.<o:p></o:p> ><o:p> </o:p> ><o:p> </o:p> > _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p> > members-discuss mailing list<o:p></o:p> > <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><o:p></o:p> > <a 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