<div dir="auto">Mate, i really dont get you. Until proof was provided you was arguing that there is no issue with that, after you got with proofs, now you are arguing and replying to me something that i didnt asked about it!<div dir="auto">We are talking about something else, read the whole mail list replies and you will get it.</div><div dir="auto"> </div><div dir="auto">Cheers.</div></div> <div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, 15 May 2024, 21:59 Evgeniy Brodskiy, <<a href="mailto:Evgeniy.Brodskiy@kyivstar.net">Evgeniy.Brodskiy@kyivstar.net</a>> wrote: </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div> Конфіденційно/Confidential <div> <div dir="auto">Show, it is possible for EU company to be an ARIN member, but this requires some considerable effort.</div> <div dir="auto"> </div> <div dir="auto">And even in case you don't want to be an ARIN member, how it of contradict first part of my answer. Wich promises was given to new LIR in RIPE and stay unrelised?</div> <div id="m_-5093591972721622295ms-outlook-mobile-signature" dir="auto"> <div dir="auto"> </div> </div> <div id="m_-5093591972721622295mail-editor-reference-message-container" dir="auto"> <hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%"> <div id="m_-5093591972721622295divRplyFwdMsg" style="font-size:11pt">От: members-discuss <<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>> от имени Mentor Leniqi via members-discuss <<a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">members-discuss@ripe.net</a>> Отправлено: среда, мая 15, 2024 10:15:24 PM Кому: Evgeniy Brodskiy <<a href="mailto:Evgeniy.Brodskiy@kyivstar.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Evgeniy.Brodskiy@kyivstar.net</a>> Копия: <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> <<a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">members-discuss@ripe.net</a>> Тема: Re: [members-discuss] [comms-circle] Re: [ncc-announce] [GM] Executive Board Meeting to Discuss Charging Scheme Input from Members </div> <div dir="ltr">What does this tells to you: <a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/nrpm/#9-out-of-region-use" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/nrpm/#9-out-of-region-use</a></div> <div class="gmail_quote"> <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, May 15, 2024 at 9:04 PM Evgeniy Brodskiy via members-discuss <<a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">members-discuss@ripe.net</a>> wrote: </div> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> <div> Конфіденційно/Confidential <div> <div dir="auto">Ok, please show exact place in ARIN policy which restrict ARIN members to provide services for EU customers and work in EU.</div> <div id="m_-5093591972721622295m_8729339348234221392ms-outlook-mobile-signature" dir="auto"> <div> </div> </div> <div id="m_-5093591972721622295m_8729339348234221392mail-editor-reference-message-container" dir="auto"> <hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%"> <div id="m_-5093591972721622295m_8729339348234221392divRplyFwdMsg" style="font-size:11pt">От: Murat Terzioglu | PREBITS <<a href="mailto:m.terzioglu@prebits.de" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">m.terzioglu@prebits.de</a>> Отправлено: среда, мая 15, 2024 9:54:44 PM Кому: Evgeniy Brodskiy <<a href="mailto:Evgeniy.Brodskiy@kyivstar.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Evgeniy.Brodskiy@kyivstar.net</a>> Копия: <a href="mailto:sdy@a-n-t.ru" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">sdy@a-n-t.ru</a> <<a href="mailto:sdy@a-n-t.ru" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">sdy@a-n-t.ru</a>>; <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> <<a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">members-discuss@ripe.net</a>> Тема: Re: [members-discuss] [comms-circle] Re: [ncc-announce] [GM] Executive Board Meeting to Discuss Charging Scheme Input from Members </div> <div dir="ltr">For you not, but for ARIN, RIPE NCC, APNIC, etc.. do… <div> </div> <div>I dont know, if you already red the policies, but i did.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> <div dir="ltr"> -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best Regards Murat TERZIOGLU PREBITS - Premium Business IT Solutions Bochumer Str. 20 D-44866 Bochum Telefon: 0234/58825994 Telefax: 0234/58825995 <a href="http://www.prebits.de/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">www.prebits.de</a> <a href="mailto:m.terzioglu@prebits.de" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">m.terzioglu@prebits.de</a> USt-ID: DE315418902 </div> <div dir="ltr"> <blockquote type="cite">Am 15.05.2024 um 20:37 schrieb Evgeniy Brodskiy <<a href="mailto:Evgeniy.Brodskiy@kyivstar.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Evgeniy.Brodskiy@kyivstar.net</a>>: </blockquote> </div> <blockquote type="cite"> <div dir="ltr"> <div> Of course it is a reason if you disagree with RIPE policy and count RIPE as unfair organization. When you became LIR nobody promise you that you will pay per /24 or you obtain IP take away from others. So you shouldn’t have any unreleased promises. Briefly I don’t any restriction became ARIN member and work in EU. Hope more experienced participants of mailing list correct me if I am wrong. About resources of ARIN when you became ARIN member you can discuss it with them. <div> <div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"> From: Murat Terzioglu | PREBITS <<a href="mailto:m.terzioglu@prebits.de" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">m.terzioglu@prebits.de</a>> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2024 8:38 PM To: Evgeniy Brodskiy <<a href="mailto:Evgeniy.Brodskiy@kyivstar.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Evgeniy.Brodskiy@kyivstar.net</a>> Cc: <a href="mailto:sdy@a-n-t.ru" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">sdy@a-n-t.ru</a>; <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"> members-discuss@ripe.net</a> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [comms-circle] Re: [ncc-announce] [GM] Executive Board Meeting to Discuss Charging Scheme Input from Members </div> </div> For example if my customers are in eu and i work in eu and my operation is in eu, would that be a reason, why i work with RIPE NCC? <div> </div> <div> Show me the way for example, if it is possible to create a LIR on ARIN and work here in EU as a member of ARIN and with of course the resource of ARIN? </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> <div> -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best Regards Murat TERZIOGLU PREBITS - Premium Business IT Solutions Bochumer Str. 20 D-44866 Bochum Telefon: 0234/58825994 Telefax: 0234/58825995 <a href="http://www.prebits.de/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">www.prebits.de</a> <a href="mailto:m.terzioglu@prebits.de" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">m.terzioglu@prebits.de</a> USt-ID: DE315418902 </div> <div> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> Am 15.05.2024 um 19:27 schrieb Evgeniy Brodskiy via members-discuss <<a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">members-discuss@ripe.net</a>>: </blockquote> </div> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> <div> Sorry but actually it is talk about members fee. It is named - "members fee" and it is members fee. I don’t think current situation is discriminatory. You Ok with membership rules that gave your ability to be a LIR but not Ok with IP addresses allocation rules which exists in the same time. How it is possible ? And more if in the moment you became a LIR why you chose RIPE as RIR for registry service if this organization so discriminatory from your point of view ?? I can't say for other large LIRs but our company obtained IPs according to RIPEN rules (yes it is not a gift it is procedure) to provide access to Internet for our subscribers. And we don't hold or sell IPs we use them to provide access for people to internet. Hope same as you... -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss <<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>> On Behalf Of <a href="mailto:sdy@a-n-t.ru" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">sdy@a-n-t.ru</a> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2024 7:19 PM To: Evgeniy Brodskiy <<a href="mailto:Evgeniy.Brodskiy@kyivstar.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Evgeniy.Brodskiy@kyivstar.net</a>> Cc: <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [comms-circle] Re: [ncc-announce] [GM] Executive Board Meeting to Discuss Charging Scheme Input from Members It is not talk about "different members fee"! It is talking about payment for network resources that we need, but we have not, but, as fact, pay for it use by another LIRs. Let's not forget that the RIPE community and NCC is a partner organization for network management and interaction. And it is not at all a gathering of big players and address speculators. Our main task is to organize non-discriminatory access to resources from different networks. If, as a result, now 7% of LIRs took 84% of the address resources, then we have clearly been doing something wrong all these years! So, at least, another 93% LIRs must to think what is role of NCC is? <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> If it is all not about money maybe we can stop talking about different </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> members fee ? </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> ________________________________ </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> От: members-discuss <<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>> от имени </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> <a href="mailto:sdy@a-n-t.ru" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">sdy@a-n-t.ru</a> <<a href="mailto:sdy@a-n-t.ru" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">sdy@a-n-t.ru</a>> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> Отправлено: вторник, мая 14, 2024 6:38:26 PM </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> Кому: Jan Zorz - Go6 <<a href="mailto:jan@go6.si" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">jan@go6.si</a>> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> Копия: <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> <<a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">members-discuss@ripe.net</a>> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> Тема: Re: [members-discuss] [comms-circle] Re: [ncc-announce] [GM] </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> Executive Board Meeting to Discuss Charging Scheme Input from Members </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> Dear Jan. </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> We have alternative look! </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> If we all pay equal sum - lets devide RIPE ipv4 and AS numbers to </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> equal parts for every NCC member! </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> P.S. </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> Please - do not repeat paranoid idea: payment sum = number of votes. </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> We live in 21 century. Money now is not a fetish! When you vote for </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> government in your country, do you proceed your votes numbers from </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> your salary and taxes too? </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> On 14. 5. 24 15:05, ROSKOMNADZOR LIMITED wrote: </blockquote> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> If big organization pay a large amount of taxes - are they have more </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> votes? Im think so - NO. </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> </blockquote> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> If you have more shares in the company - you have more votes :) </blockquote> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> </blockquote> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> In proportional model - you pay FIXED amount PER RESOURCE. </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> Why Big members must have more votes? They pay same as other! </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> </blockquote> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> If big members would pay significantly higher members fee price (due </blockquote> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> to larger IPv4 space), then it's only logical that they would request </blockquote> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> proportionally more votes at the GM :) </blockquote> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> </blockquote> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> Do we really want that? </blockquote> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> </blockquote> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> Cheers, Jan </blockquote> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> </blockquote> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> </blockquote> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> </blockquote> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"> _______________________________________________ </blockquote> </blockquote> <blockquote 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