<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style></style></head><body lang=DE link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1>I dont think so. Members want members to pay proportional as their resources. The increase of the costs is a result of the solution proposals, because actually for example one member with about %0,5 of the general resources pays the same as a member with about %0,005 or may be %0,0005 only.<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p><o:p> </o:p><div>-- Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best Regards Murat TERZIOGLU PREBITS<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>Bochumer Str. 20<o:p></o:p>44866 Bochum<o:p></o:p>Deutschland<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>Telefon: 0234/58825994<o:p></o:p>Telefax: 0234/58825995<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p><a href="http://www.prebits.de/">www.prebits.de</a><o:p></o:p><a href="mailto:info@prebits.de">info@prebits.de</a><o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>USt-ID: DE315418902<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p></div><o:p> </o:p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>Von: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> Im Auftrag von Evgeniy Brodskiy via members-discuss Gesendet: Mittwoch, 17. April 2024 11:50 An: Kurtis Lindqvist <kurtis@linx.net> Cc: Kurt Jaeger <members-discuss@nepustil.net>; members-discuss@ripe.net Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] Charging scheme 2025 proposal (logarithmic)<o:p></o:p></div></div><o:p> </o:p>Confidential/Конфіденційно<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p><div>Hello Kurtis!<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>I think there is one more circle. Some members simply want to increase the cost of ownership IPv4 address space. <o:p></o:p>Perhaps, from their point of view, this will result in some IPv4 addresses being transferred back to RIPE.<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p><o:p> </o:p>P.S. I believe it is not, a lot of reasons why.<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>From: members-discuss <<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>> On Behalf Of Kurtis Lindqvist Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2024 11:56 AM To: Kaj Niemi <<a href="mailto:kajtzu@basen.net">kajtzu@basen.net</a>>; Kurt Jaeger <<a href="mailto:members-discuss@nepustil.net">members-discuss@nepustil.net</a>> Cc: <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Charging scheme 2025 proposal (logarithmic)<o:p></o:p></div></div><o:p> </o:p><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=left width="100%" style='width:100.0%'><tr><td style='background:#A6A6A6;padding:5.25pt 1.5pt 5.25pt 1.5pt'></td><td width="100%" style='width:100.0%;background:#EAEAEA;padding:5.25pt 3.75pt 5.25pt 11.25pt'><div>You don't often get email from <a href="mailto:kurtis@linx.net">kurtis@linx.net</a>. <a href="https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification">Learn why this is important</a><o:p></o:p></div></td><td width=75 style='width:56.25pt;background:#EAEAEA;padding:5.25pt 3.75pt 5.25pt 3.75pt;align:left'></td></tr></table><div><o:p> </o:p>Hi Kaj! <o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>Isn’t this really at the heart of the problem. In a Venn diagram there are (at least) three circles here, the members with an opinion the mailinglist who want to crystalise the core services and keep RIPE NCC costs lower and see greater efficiency gains, there is the circle of members who respond to the membership survey and are happy and want to keep all services as they are and then there is a circle of the members who actually vote (and possibly manage the payments). I am not convinced there is a great overlap of these circles and so we end up in a situation with very little guidance.<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p><div><div>Best Regards,<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>- kurtis -<o:p></o:p>--<o:p></o:p>Kurt Erik Lindqvist, CEO<o:p></o:p>T: +44 (0) 20 7645 3528 | <a href="http://www.linx.net/" title="http://www.linx.net/">www.linx.net</a><o:p></o:p><a href="https://www.linx.net/" title="https://www.linx.net/"><img border=0 width=157 height=59 style='width:1.6354in;height:.6145in' id="Picture_x0020_5" src="cid:image001.png@01DA90C0.FA3B6CD0" alt=b8dd7c7e-5b7a-4bb3-bf55-4265639a41be></a><o:p></o:p>London Internet Exchange Ltd (LINX) C/O WeWork, 2 Minister Court, London, EC3R 7BB, United Kingdom Registered in England number 3137929 <a href="https://twitter.com/linx_network" title="https://twitter.com/linx_network"><img border=0 width=31 height=31 style='width:.3229in;height:.3229in' id="Picture_x0020_4" src="cid:image002.png@01DA90C0.FA3B6CD0" alt=09f5285b-9bf5-4663-a1d5-f335264499f8></a><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/linx" title="https://www.linkedin.com/company/linx"><img border=0 width=37 height=37 style='width:.3854in;height:.3854in' id="Picture_x0020_3" src="cid:image003.png@01DA90C0.FA3B6CD0" alt=0ab2af08-4510-4094-a068-c92129623c5c></a><a href="https://www.facebook.com/LondonInternetExchange/" title="https://www.facebook.com/LondonInternetExchange/"><img border=0 width=37 height=37 style='width:.3854in;height:.3854in' id="Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image004.png@01DA90C0.FA3B6CD0" alt=34761a22-8ab1-4259-b5a4-c45509cfc94a></a><a href="https://www.youtube.com/user/LINXnetwork" title="https://www.youtube.com/user/LINXnetwork"><img border=0 width=37 height=37 style='width:.3854in;height:.3854in' id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image005.png@01DA90C0.FA3B6CD0" alt=591060a6-addb-47a4-a833-1c93e4b644f4></a><o:p></o:p></div></div><o:p> </o:p><div id=mail-editor-reference-message-container><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>From: members-discuss <<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>> on behalf of Kaj Niemi <<a href="mailto:kajtzu@basen.net">kajtzu@basen.net</a>> Date: Tuesday, 16 April 2024 at 19:49 To: Kurt Jaeger <<a href="mailto:members-discuss@nepustil.net">members-discuss@nepustil.net</a>> Cc: <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> <<a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a>> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Charging scheme 2025 proposal (logarithmic)<o:p></o:p></div><div><div>Hi,<o:p></o:p></div><div><o:p> </o:p></div><div><o:p> </o:p></div><div>Good points.<o:p></o:p></div><div><o:p> </o:p></div><div>On the topic of AFRINIC, I would slightly disagree. Membership numbers have been increasing from about 1200 in 2018-ish, when they restated revenue, at around 5.3M USD to the 6M-ish USD I mentioned in my previous email. I haven't actively been following the story there but assumed the legal troubles started FY2021-ish.. since revenue was restated, there was probably something else going on earlier. They spent about 140k on legal in 2022 although only non-audited numbers exist. I'm reading it as if the legal issues themselves did not affect revenue one way or another.<o:p></o:p></div><div><o:p> </o:p></div><div>As for RIPE, well, I'm advocating on spending less and crystallizing the value prop because right now it's all over the place.<o:p></o:p></div><div><o:p> </o:p></div><div><ol start=1 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3;list-style-type:"1. "'>LIRs [must] pay because they need the registry services<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3;list-style-type:"2. "'>In exchange they get a ton of services that many do not use at all<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3;list-style-type:"3. "'>All services and functions are necessary because [list with many reasons]<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3;list-style-type:"4. "'>"We need to increase the fees because of 2 and 3"<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3;list-style-type:"5. "'>Goto 1<o:p></o:p></li></ol></div><div><o:p> </o:p></div><div>That being said, the gym analogy someone replied with a few days ago is quite apt. Most people there, too, pay but do not use.<o:p></o:p></div><div><o:p> </o:p></div><div><o:p> </o:p></div><div id=ms-outlook-mobile-signature><div><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div>Kaj<o:p></o:p></div><div><o:p> </o:p></div><div>Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></div><div><o:p> </o:p></div></div></div><div id=mail-editor-reference-message-container><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=1 width="100%" align=center></div><div id=divRplyFwdMsg>From: Kurt Jaeger <<a href="mailto:members-discuss@nepustil.net">members-discuss@nepustil.net</a>> Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2024 8:06 PM To: Kaj Niemi <<a href="mailto:kajtzu@basen.net">kajtzu@basen.net</a>> Cc: <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> <<a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a>> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Charging scheme 2025 proposal (logarithmic) <o:p></o:p><div> <o:p></o:p></div></div><div>[You don't often get email from <a href="mailto:members-discuss@nepustil.net">members-discuss@nepustil.net</a>. Learn why this is important at <a href="https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification">https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification</a> ] Hi! Thanks for writing up those stats. > Let's do some napkin math and comps with the other RIRs. [...] > > RIPE, revenue 38M EUR (40M USD), members 20k = 2 k/member > ARIN, revenue 25M USD, members 25k = 1 k/member > APNIC, revenue 33M AUD (21M USD), members 10k = 2 k/member > LACNIC, revenue 10M USD, members 12k = 0.8 k/member > AFRINIC, revenue 6M USD, members 2k = 3 k/member [...] > Now, in my opinion, there are a few surprises. > ARIN, located in a very expensive country, is quite efficient per member. I think one has to analyse if ARIN and RIPE do the same when it comes to reach-out, research etc. I'm not sure that ARIN is as active as RIPE is. Also: The language barrier in the service area is much more difficult to traverse than in the ARIN service area. And the RIPE has to cope with a very difficult legal and political landscape compared to ARIN. > On the other hand, AFRINIC seems to be rather inefficient. I would not hold that against AFRINIC, given their legal and political landscape. -- MfG/Best regards, Kurt Jaeger Now what ? Dr.-Ing. Nepustil & Co. GmbH fon +49 7123 93006-0 <a href="mailto:pi@nepustil.net">pi@nepustil.net</a> Rathausstr. 3 mob +49 171 3101372 72658 Bempflingen<o:p></o:p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>