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<div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
It is possible to transfer resources between the RIRs with a bunch of conditions attached and some caveats. For example:</div>
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both RIRs must approve the intended transfer,</div>
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there needs to be some kind of justification why it would need to occur,</div>
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at least in LACNIC's case one would need to re-justify the incoming assignment using their rules,</div>
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if addresses were considered legacy at RIPE, they would convert to non-legacy when being registered with LACNIC,</div>
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you'd end up paying both sides of the transaction assuming you're controlling two LIRs under separate RIRs.</div>
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<div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
So, it doesn't really make sense to try to "RIR shop" on price. Transfers might make sense if you want to consolidate assets for M&A purposes somewhere than where they originated.</div>
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<div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Realistically, if someone were to return IPv4 addresses to a RIR, the returned addresses would in practice instantly be gone as there are waiting lists for these.</div>
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<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><span style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">Kaj</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br>
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<b>From:</b> members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Evgeniy Brodskiy via members-discuss <members-discuss@ripe.net><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 17, 2024 13:28<br>
<b>To:</b> sdy@a-n-t.ru <sdy@a-n-t.ru><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Kurt Jaeger <members-discuss@nepustil.net>; members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [members-discuss] Charging scheme 2025 proposal (logarithmic)</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"> </div>
<div class="elementToProof" style="font-size: 11pt;">Confidential/Конфіденційно<br>
<br>
Maybe, but to be sure we all understand consequences for this "easy" solution to "complicated problem" I have two questions:<br>
- do LIRs have ability to transfer IPv4 networks between RIRs (because for the land example, transfer is not an option) ??<br>
- is this transfer more complicated and costly than have fair share of RIPE spends ?<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of sdy@a-n-t.ru<br>
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2024 12:59 PM<br>
To: Evgeniy Brodskiy <Evgeniy.Brodskiy@kyivstar.net><br>
Cc: Kurt Jaeger <members-discuss@nepustil.net>; members-discuss@ripe.net<br>
Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Charging scheme 2025 proposal (logarithmic)<br>
<br>
Sorry, but my 5 cents...<br>
<br>
Not only "result in some IPv4 addresses being transferred back to RIPE".<br>
Lets do not forget, It will decrease payment for LIR who could not take more IPv4 an AS.<br>
So, This will make the relationship between the NCC participants more honest too.<br>
<br>
> Confidential/Конфіденційно<br>
><br>
> Hello Kurtis!<br>
><br>
> I think there is one more circle. Some members simply want to increase<br>
> the cost of ownership IPv4 address space.<br>
> Perhaps, from their point of view, this will result in some IPv4<br>
> addresses being transferred back to RIPE.<br>
><br>
><br>
> P.S. I believe it is not, a lot of reasons why.<br>
><br>
> From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of<br>
> Kurtis Lindqvist<br>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2024 11:56 AM<br>
> To: Kaj Niemi <kajtzu@basen.net>; Kurt Jaeger<br>
> <members-discuss@nepustil.net><br>
> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net<br>
> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Charging scheme 2025 proposal<br>
> (logarithmic)<br>
><br>
> You don't often get email from kurtis@linx.net<<a href="mailto:kurtis@linx.net" id="OWA8b31c3d2-57a5-e108-d266-99707017ce1a" class="OWAAutoLink" data-loopstyle="linkonly">mailto:kurtis@linx.net</a>>.<br>
> Learn why this is<br>
> important<<a href="https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification" id="OWAfdb21886-a3d1-a643-d683-f05cc07000cb" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable" data-loopstyle="linkonly">https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification</a>><br>
><br>
> Hi Kaj!<br>
><br>
> Isn’t this really at the heart of the problem. In a Venn diagram there<br>
> are (at least) three circles here, the members with an opinion the<br>
> mailinglist who want to crystalise the core services and keep RIPE NCC<br>
> costs lower and see greater efficiency gains, there is the circle of<br>
> members who respond to the membership survey and are happy and want to<br>
> keep all services as they are and then there is a circle of the<br>
> members who actually vote (and possibly manage the payments). I am not<br>
> convinced there is a great overlap of these circles and so we end up<br>
> in a situation with very little guidance.<br>
><br>
> Best Regards,<br>
><br>
> - kurtis -<br>
> --<br>
> Kurt Erik Lindqvist, CEO<br>
> T: +44 (0) 20 7645 3528 |<br>
> <a href="http://www.l/" id="OWA4c39f979-b0fd-6796-3cc2-02944c85ecd3" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable" data-loopstyle="linkonly">
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><br>
> From: members-discuss<br>
> <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.<br>
> net>> on behalf of Kaj Niemi<br>
> <kajtzu@basen.net<mailto:kajtzu@basen.net>><br>
> Date: Tuesday, 16 April 2024 at 19:49<br>
> To: Kurt Jaeger<br>
> <members-discuss@nepustil.net<mailto:members-discuss@nepustil.net>><br>
> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net><br>
> <members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net>><br>
> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Charging scheme 2025 proposal<br>
> (logarithmic)<br>
> Hi,<br>
><br>
><br>
> Good points.<br>
><br>
> On the topic of AFRINIC, I would slightly disagree. Membership numbers<br>
> have been increasing from about 1200 in 2018-ish, when they restated<br>
> revenue, at around 5.3M USD to the 6M-ish USD I mentioned in my<br>
> previous email. I haven't actively been following the story there but<br>
> assumed the legal troubles started FY2021-ish.. since revenue was<br>
> restated, there was probably something else going on earlier. They<br>
> spent about 140k on legal in 2022 although only non-audited numbers<br>
> exist. I'm reading it as if the legal issues themselves did not affect revenue one way or another.<br>
><br>
> As for RIPE, well, I'm advocating on spending less and crystallizing<br>
> the value prop because right now it's all over the place.<br>
><br>
><br>
> 1. LIRs [must] pay because they need the registry services<br>
> 2. In exchange they get a ton of services that many do not use at all<br>
> 3. All services and functions are necessary because [list with many<br>
> reasons]<br>
> 4. "We need to increase the fees because of 2 and 3"<br>
> 5. Goto 1<br>
><br>
> That being said, the gym analogy someone replied with a few days ago<br>
> is quite apt. Most people there, too, pay but do not use.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Kaj<br>
><br>
> Sent from my iPad<br>
><br>
> ________________________________<br>
> From: Kurt Jaeger<br>
> <members-discuss@nepustil.net<mailto:members-discuss@nepustil.net>><br>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2024 8:06 PM<br>
> To: Kaj Niemi <kajtzu@basen.net<mailto:kajtzu@basen.net>><br>
> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net><br>
> <members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net>><br>
> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Charging scheme 2025 proposal<br>
> (logarithmic)<br>
><br>
> [You don't often get email from<br>
> members-discuss@nepustil.net<mailto:members-discuss@nepustil.net>.<br>
> Learn why this is important at<br>
> <a href="https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification" id="OWA391fa101-fea4-83bf-4a23-159a5a850c47" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable" data-loopstyle="linkonly">
https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification</a> ]<br>
><br>
> Hi!<br>
><br>
> Thanks for writing up those stats.<br>
><br>
>> Let's do some napkin math and comps with the other RIRs. [...]<br>
>><br>
>> RIPE, revenue 38M EUR (40M USD), members 20k = 2 k/member ARIN,<br>
>> revenue 25M USD, members 25k = 1 k/member APNIC, revenue 33M AUD (21M<br>
>> USD), members 10k = 2 k/member LACNIC, revenue 10M USD, members 12k =<br>
>> 0.8 k/member AFRINIC, revenue 6M USD, members 2k = 3 k/member<br>
> [...]<br>
><br>
>> Now, in my opinion, there are a few surprises.<br>
>> ARIN, located in a very expensive country, is quite efficient per<br>
>> member.<br>
><br>
> I think one has to analyse if ARIN and RIPE do the same when it comes<br>
> to reach-out, research etc. I'm not sure that ARIN is as active as<br>
> RIPE is. Also: The language barrier in the service area is much more<br>
> difficult to traverse than in the ARIN service area. And the RIPE has<br>
> to cope with a very difficult legal and political landscape compared<br>
> to ARIN.<br>
><br>
>> On the other hand, AFRINIC seems to be rather inefficient.<br>
><br>
> I would not hold that against AFRINIC, given their legal and political<br>
> landscape.<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> MfG/Best regards, Kurt Jaeger Now what ?<br>
> Dr.-Ing. Nepustil & Co. GmbH fon +49 7123 93006-0<br>
> pi@nepustil.net<<a href="mailto:pi@nepustil.net" id="OWAa3aeb139-b322-bfe6-4a2d-fcc08abef0a7" class="OWAAutoLink" data-loopstyle="linkonly">mailto:pi@nepustil.net</a>><br>
> Rathausstr. 3 mob +49 171 3101372<br>
> 72658 Bempflingen<br>
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С уважением Сербулов Дмитрий<br>
ООО "Альфа Нет Телеком"<br>
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