<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252"> <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"> <style></style> </head> <body lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="word-wrap:break-word"> <div class="WordSection1"> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Hi Kaj! <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Isn’t this really at the heart of the problem. In a Venn diagram there are (at least) three circles here, the members with an opinion the mailinglist who want to crystalise the core services and keep RIPE NCC costs lower and see greater efficiency gains, there is the circle of members who respond to the membership survey and are happy and want to keep all services as they are and then there is a circle of the members who actually vote (and possibly manage the payments). I am not convinced there is a great overlap of these circles and so we end up in a situation with very little guidance.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">Best Regards,</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">- kurtis -</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">--</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">Kurt Erik Lindqvist, CEO</span></b><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">T: +44 (0) 20 7645 3528 | <a href="http://www.linx.net" title="http://www.linx.net/"><span style="color:#044A91">www.linx.net</span></a></span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://www.linx.net/" title="https://www.linx.net/"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="157" height="59" style="width:1.6354in;height:.6145in" id="Picture_x0020_5" src="cid:image001.png@01DA90AD.011EF940" alt="b8dd7c7e-5b7a-4bb3-bf55-4265639a41be"></span></a><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">London Internet Exchange Ltd (LINX)</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><br> C/O WeWork, 2 Minister Court, London, EC3R 7BB, United Kingdom<br> Registered in England number 3137929<br> </span><a href="https://twitter.com/linx_network" title="https://twitter.com/linx_network"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="31" height="31" style="width:.3229in;height:.3229in" id="Picture_x0020_4" src="cid:image002.png@01DA90AD.011EF940" alt="09f5285b-9bf5-4663-a1d5-f335264499f8"></span></a><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/linx" title="https://www.linkedin.com/company/linx"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="37" height="37" style="width:.3854in;height:.3854in" id="Picture_x0020_3" src="cid:image003.png@01DA90AD.011EF940" alt="0ab2af08-4510-4094-a068-c92129623c5c"></span></a><a href="https://www.facebook.com/LondonInternetExchange/" title="https://www.facebook.com/LondonInternetExchange/"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="37" height="37" style="width:.3854in;height:.3854in" id="Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image004.png@01DA90AD.011EF940" alt="34761a22-8ab1-4259-b5a4-c45509cfc94a"></span></a><a href="https://www.youtube.com/user/LINXnetwork" title="https://www.youtube.com/user/LINXnetwork"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="37" height="37" style="width:.3854in;height:.3854in" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image005.png@01DA90AD.011EF940" alt="591060a6-addb-47a4-a833-1c93e4b644f4"></span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div id="mail-editor-reference-message-container"> <div> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Kaj Niemi <kajtzu@basen.net><br> <b>Date: </b>Tuesday, 16 April 2024 at 19:49<br> <b>To: </b>Kurt Jaeger <members-discuss@nepustil.net><br> <b>Cc: </b>members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net><br> <b>Subject: </b>Re: [members-discuss] Charging scheme 2025 proposal (logarithmic)<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Good points.<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On the topic of AFRINIC, I would slightly disagree. Membership numbers have been increasing from about 1200 in 2018-ish, when they restated revenue, at around 5.3M USD to the 6M-ish USD I mentioned in my previous email. I haven't actively been following the story there but assumed the legal troubles started FY2021-ish.. since revenue was restated, there was probably something else going on earlier. They spent about 140k on legal in 2022 although only non-audited numbers exist. I'm reading it as if the legal issues themselves did not affect revenue one way or another.<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">As for RIPE, well, I'm advocating on spending less and crystallizing the value prop because right now it's all over the place.<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <ol start="1" type="1"> <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;list-style-type:"1. ""> <span style="font-size:12.0pt">LIRs [must] pay because they need the registry services<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;list-style-type:"2. ""> <span style="font-size:12.0pt">In exchange they get a ton of services that many do not use at all<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;list-style-type:"3. ""> <span style="font-size:12.0pt">All services and functions are necessary because [list with many reasons]<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;list-style-type:"4. ""> <span style="font-size:12.0pt">"We need to increase the fees because of 2 and 3"<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;list-style-type:"5. ""> <span style="font-size:12.0pt">Goto 1<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">That being said, the gym analogy someone replied with a few days ago is quite apt. Most people there, too, pay but do not use.<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div id="ms-outlook-mobile-signature"> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Kaj<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> </div> </div> <div id="mail-editor-reference-message-container"> <div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <hr size="0" width="100%" align="center"> </span></div> <div id="divRplyFwdMsg"> <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Kurt Jaeger <members-discuss@nepustil.net><br> <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 16, 2024 8:06 PM<br> <b>To:</b> Kaj Niemi <kajtzu@basen.net><br> <b>Cc:</b> members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [members-discuss] Charging scheme 2025 proposal (logarithmic) <o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">[You don't often get email from members-discuss@nepustil.net. Learn why this is important at <a href="https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification">https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification</a> ]<br> <br> Hi!<br> <br> Thanks for writing up those stats.<br> <br> > Let's do some napkin math and comps with the other RIRs. [...]<br> ><br> > RIPE, revenue 38M EUR (40M USD), members 20k = 2 k/member<br> > ARIN, revenue 25M USD, members 25k = 1 k/member<br> > APNIC, revenue 33M AUD (21M USD), members 10k = 2 k/member<br> > LACNIC, revenue 10M USD, members 12k = 0.8 k/member<br> > AFRINIC, revenue 6M USD, members 2k = 3 k/member<br> [...]<br> <br> > Now, in my opinion, there are a few surprises.<br> > ARIN, located in a very expensive country, is quite efficient per member.<br> <br> I think one has to analyse if ARIN and RIPE do the same<br> when it comes to reach-out, research etc. I'm not sure<br> that ARIN is as active as RIPE is. Also: The language barrier<br> in the service area is much more difficult to traverse<br> than in the ARIN service area. And the RIPE has to cope with a<br> very difficult legal and political landscape compared to ARIN.<br> <br> > On the other hand, AFRINIC seems to be rather inefficient.<br> <br> I would not hold that against AFRINIC, given their legal and political<br> landscape.<br> <br> --<br> MfG/Best regards, Kurt Jaeger Now what ?<br> Dr.-Ing. Nepustil & Co. GmbH fon +49 7123 93006-0 pi@nepustil.net<br> Rathausstr. 3 mob +49 171 3101372<br> 72658 Bempflingen<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html>