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Lets talk about isp's also hording v4 space</div>
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Sky</div>
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90.208.0.0/12</div>
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Virgin Media</div>
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86.23.16.0/20</div>
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<span style="font-weight: 500;"><time datetime="2024-04-11T17:34:12.889Z" style="color: inherit; background-color: inherit;">
<div style="text-align: right; text-indent: 0px; line-height: 1.375rem;">[18:34]</div>
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86.23.0.0/18</div>
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<span style="font-weight: 500;"><time datetime="2024-04-11T17:34:31.688Z" style="color: inherit; background-color: inherit;">
<div style="text-align: right; text-indent: 0px; line-height: 1.375rem;">[18:34]</div>
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86.37.0.0/17</div>
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<span style="font-weight: 500;"><time datetime="2024-04-11T17:34:42.609Z" style="color: inherit; background-color: inherit;">
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86.36.192.0/18</div>
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<span style="font-weight: 500;"><time datetime="2024-04-11T17:36:55.116Z" style="color: inherit; background-color: inherit;">
<div style="text-align: right; text-indent: 0px; line-height: 1.375rem;">[18:36]</div>
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92.232.20.0/22</div>
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All fully unused, maybe internal but i doubt it maybe we should ACTUALLY focus on the correct reasons on why we have ran out and why LIRs have declined.</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of ivaylo <ivaylo@bglans.net><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 11 April 2024 18:32<br>
<b>To:</b> Kaj Niemi <kajtzu@basen.net><br>
<b>Cc:</b> members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Proposals</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div class="BodyFragment"><font size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt;">
<div class="PlainText"><br>
By IANA Documents:<br>
<br>
053/8 Daimler AG 1993-10 whois.ripe.net <br>
<a href="https://rdap.db.ripe.net/">https://rdap.db.ripe.net/</a> LEGACY<br>
<br>
They are delegated to RIPE. All legacy resource holders must be asked to <br>
become LIRs or to find sponsoring LIR.<br>
<br>
If you dont route public resource, why do you then need and hold such ? <br>
Let they free it or pay for it as everyone else !<br>
<br>
<br>
Ivaylo Josifov<br>
VarnaIX / Varteh LTD<br>
+359 52 969393<br>
Varna, Bulgaria<br>
<br>
<br>
On Thu, 11 Apr 2024, Kaj Niemi wrote:<br>
<br>
> Daimler?s 53/8 is legacy addesss space as is the 25/8 for UK MoD. There are<br>
> plenty of addresses that are outside of RIR control for legacy reasons.<br>
> <br>
> Similarity addresses not being rooted on the internet doesn't mean they<br>
> wouldn't be in use elsewhere.<br>
> <br>
> There isn't really anything to "ignore".<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Kaj<br>
> <br>
> Sent from my iPhone<br>
> <br>
> ____________________________________________________________________________<br>
> From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of<br>
> sdy@a-n-t.ru <sdy@a-n-t.ru><br>
> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2024 8:00 PM<br>
> To: ROSKOMNADZOR LIMITED <admin@roskomnadzor.io><br>
> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net><br>
> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Draft RIPE NCC Charging<br>
> Scheme 2025 Proposals<br>
> Absolutely agree - it's abnormal situation.<br>
> <br>
> But now looks like NCC bosses continue ignore it. May be they are under<br>
> control on Mercedes-Benz or UK Ministry of Defence??? :-)<br>
> <br>
> But really, it is look like, it is too difficult to reform charge scheme<br>
> in this situation.<br>
> <br>
> > RIPE saying about last IPv4 /8 is run out, but stop...<br>
> ><br>
> > IPv4 /8 - Mercedes-Benz Group AG<br>
> ><a href="https://apps.db.r/">https://apps.db.r/</a><br>
> ipe.net%2Fdb-web-ui%2Fquery%3Fbflag%3Dfalse%26dflag%3Dfalse%26rflag%3Dtrue<br>
> %26searchtext%3D53.0.0.0%26source%3DRIPE&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cc7c3d19a075141d<br>
> 340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C63848451623<br>
> 7821753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTi<br>
> I6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=CGALEu12rMr93jaKbr5Jd%2FSyL<br>
> 1T1iEinoJQUm%2BfqbuI%3D&reserved=0<br>
> > (over 50% of pool unused! Guess they even didnt have so much cars for so<br>
> > much IPs)<br>
> ><br>
> > IPv4 /8 - UK Ministry of Defence<br>
> ><a href="https://apps.db.r/">https://apps.db.r/</a><br>
> ipe.net%2Fdb-web-ui%2Fquery%3Fbflag%3Dfalse%26dflag%3Dfalse%26rflag%3Dtrue<br>
> %26searchtext%3D25.0.0.0%26source%3DRIPE&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cc7c3d19a075141d<br>
> 340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C63848451623<br>
> 7833186%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTi<br>
> I6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=jY3r3II7kmzvQ8F4p44f392NTta<br>
> rv%2F1bfIxkH7IwqIE%3D&reserved=0<br>
> > (Never was announced -<br>
> ><a href="https://stat.ripe/">https://stat.ripe/</a><br>
> .net%2Fui2013%2F%252025.0.0.0%23tabId%3Dat-a-glance&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cc7c3<br>
> d19a075141d340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C<br>
> 638484516237840815%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2l<br>
> uMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=XLApVhfQEEQc91fD<br>
> 2v2V0QDRVGIthXqJvHaqs%2B6%2Bh4k%3D&reserved=0)<br>
> ><br>
> > This members hold most biggest blocks in RIPE and didnt use it, but pay<br>
> > same - 50 EUR/year for this IPv4 /8.<br>
> ><br>
> > When some LIRs have /8 and pay for that 50 EUR/year + 1600 EUR/year<br>
> > (membership fee), other members paying same amount for 1 x /24 (if they<br>
> > have luck!)<br>
> ><br>
> > Its nonsense, why RIPE continue to funding more and more budgets from<br>
> > small LIRs?<br>
> ><br>
> > Its looks not good. Its looks like a some lobby!<br>
> ><br>
> > On 11.04.2024 15:52, Dmitry Kohmanyuk via members-discuss wrote:<br>
> >> On 11 Apr 2024, at 16:55, Evgeniy Brodskiy via members-discuss<br>
> >> <members-discuss@ripe.net> wrote:<br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> Confidential/?????????????>><br>
> >> Just a note: you are posting on mailing list which is archived so<br>
> >> everyone can read every post, yours too. Perhaps that line was added<br>
> >> automatically:)<br>
> >><br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Why do you think this statement is correct: ?They are the main source<br>
> >>> of work for RIPE employees.? ??<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Even if you think about auditing or maintaining RIPE DB, it would be<br>
> >>> strange to think that working with /16 requires 256 times more time and<br>
> >>> effort than working with /24.<br>
> >>> If you think about different "non-MAIN" services like Learning, then<br>
> >>> there is no difference between big and small LIR at all.<br>
> >>> Resources do not reflect all of these dependencies. And again you are<br>
> >>> talking about fairness.<br>
> >><br>
> >> In the fairness of use of learning resources, RPKI, Training you are<br>
> >> correct, yet we are talking about ?cost of doing business? resources.<br>
> >> Since you seem to represent a biggest mobile telecom of Ukraine,<br>
> >> Kyivstar, and also the only IPv6-enabled large ISP in the country<br>
> >> (thanks for that btw) - what is your opinion re charging per resource<br>
> >> allocated, either by category method, or logarithmic method, or some<br>
> >> other (number of resources in use, objects in the database, etc.). Your<br>
> >> company makes heavy use of IPv4 and has millions of subscribers: what<br>
> >> does ?fair? sounds like to you? Do you support extra fees for those who<br>
> >> have IPv4 available, or discount for those who have to make do with IPv6<br>
> >> only?<br>
> >><br>
> >> (Deleting hundreds of quoted lines below.)<br>
> >><br>
> >> ? dk@hostmaster.ua ?We had IPv6 before Kyivstar?<br>
> >><br>
> >>> -----Original Message-----<br>
> >>> From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of<br>
> >>> Mihail Fedorov<br>
> >>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2024 3:39 PM<br>
> >>> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net<br>
> >>> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Draft RIPE NCC<br>
> >>> Charging Scheme 2025 Proposals<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Charging per ASN is even worse than just price increase. It is terrible<br>
> >>> and killing even more LIRs<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Imagine rather new LIR who is trying to do business based on what is<br>
> >>> LIR intended for - providing LIR services to consumers. For example 30<br>
> >>> clients who requested ASN sponsorship during year.<br>
> >>> If charged per ASN they will pay twice more than huge corporations<br>
> >>> serving only purpose of their own. Those typically have just 1-2 ASNs<br>
> >>> and tons of resources attached to it. They are main source of work for<br>
> >>> RIPE staff and they should be funding expensive projects like Atlas and<br>
> >>> others.<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Actually working LIRs also have business contracts/logic already<br>
> >>> established on current charging scheme and adding ASN fee will kill<br>
> >>> them.<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Once again - why not just bill based on resources? It?s extremely easy.<br>
> >>> Oh, right, resource holders won?t like it :<br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >> _______________________________________________<br>
> >> members-discuss mailing list<br>
> >> members-discuss@ripe.net<br>
> >><a href="https://lists.rip/">https://lists.rip/</a><br>
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> >> Unsubscribe:<br>
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> ><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > members-discuss mailing list<br>
> > members-discuss@ripe.net<br>
> ><a href="https://lists.rip/">https://lists.rip/</a><br>
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> <br>
> <br>
> -----------------------------<br>
> ? ????????? ???????? ???????<br>
> ??? "????? ??? ???????"<br>
> +7(498)785-8-000 ???.<br>
> +7(495)940-92-11 ???.<br>
> +7(925)518-10-69 ???.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
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