<html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> </head> <body> <div dir="ltr"> <div dir="ltr">Daimler’s 53/8 is legacy addesss space as is the 25/8 for UK MoD. There are plenty of addresses that are outside of RIR control for legacy reasons.</div> <div dir="ltr"><br> </div> <div dir="ltr">Similarity addresses not being rooted on the internet doesn't mean they wouldn't be in use elsewhere.</div> <div dir="ltr"><br> </div> <div dir="ltr"><span style="text-decoration: none; display: inline !important; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">There isn't really anything to "ignore".<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br> </div> <div dir="ltr"><br> </div> <div id="ms-outlook-mobile-signature"> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div style="direction:ltr">Kaj</div> <div><br> </div> <div style="direction:ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div> </div> <div id="mail-editor-reference-message-container" class="ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message"> <hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex="-1"> <div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b> members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of sdy@a-n-t.ru <sdy@a-n-t.ru><br> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 11, 2024 8:00 PM<br> <b>To:</b> ROSKOMNADZOR LIMITED <admin@roskomnadzor.io><br> <b>Cc:</b> members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Proposals <div> </div> </font></div> <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Exchange Server"> <font size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt;"> <div class="PlainText">Absolutely agree - it's abnormal situation.<br> <br> But now looks like NCC bosses continue ignore it. May be they are under<br> control on Mercedes-Benz or UK Ministry of Defence??? :-)<br> <br> But really, it is look like, it is too difficult to reform charge scheme<br> in this situation.<br> <br> > RIPE saying about last IPv4 /8 is run out, but stop...<br> ><br> > IPv4 /8 - Mercedes-Benz Group AG<br> > <a href="https://apps.db.ripe.net/db-web-ui/query?bflag=false&dflag=false&rflag=true&searchtext=53.0.0.0&source=RIPE"> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fapps.db.ripe.net%2Fdb-web-ui%2Fquery%3Fbflag%3Dfalse%26dflag%3Dfalse%26rflag%3Dtrue%26searchtext%3D53.0.0.0%26source%3DRIPE&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cc7c3d19a075141d340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638484516237821753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=CGALEu12rMr93jaKbr5Jd%2FSyL1T1iEinoJQUm%2BfqbuI%3D&reserved=0</a><br> > (over 50% of pool unused! Guess they even didnt have so much cars for so<br> > much IPs)<br> ><br> > IPv4 /8 - UK Ministry of Defence<br> > <a href="https://apps.db.ripe.net/db-web-ui/query?bflag=false&dflag=false&rflag=true&searchtext=25.0.0.0&source=RIPE"> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fapps.db.ripe.net%2Fdb-web-ui%2Fquery%3Fbflag%3Dfalse%26dflag%3Dfalse%26rflag%3Dtrue%26searchtext%3D25.0.0.0%26source%3DRIPE&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cc7c3d19a075141d340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638484516237833186%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=jY3r3II7kmzvQ8F4p44f392NTtarv%2F1bfIxkH7IwqIE%3D&reserved=0</a><br> > (Never was announced -<br> > <a href="https://stat.ripe.net/ui2013/%2025.0.0.0#tabId=at-a-glance">https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstat.ripe.net%2Fui2013%2F%252025.0.0.0%23tabId%3Dat-a-glance&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cc7c3d19a075141d340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638484516237840815%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=XLApVhfQEEQc91fD2v2V0QDRVGIthXqJvHaqs%2B6%2Bh4k%3D&reserved=0)</a><br> ><br> > This members hold most biggest blocks in RIPE and didnt use it, but pay<br> > same - 50 EUR/year for this IPv4 /8.<br> ><br> > When some LIRs have /8 and pay for that 50 EUR/year + 1600 EUR/year<br> > (membership fee), other members paying same amount for 1 x /24 (if they<br> > have luck!)<br> ><br> > Its nonsense, why RIPE continue to funding more and more budgets from<br> > small LIRs?<br> ><br> > Its looks not good. Its looks like a some lobby!<br> ><br> > On 11.04.2024 15:52, Dmitry Kohmanyuk via members-discuss wrote:<br> >> On 11 Apr 2024, at 16:55, Evgeniy Brodskiy via members-discuss<br> >> <members-discuss@ripe.net> wrote:<br> >>><br> >>> Confidential/Конфіденційно<br> >><br> >> Just a note: you are posting on mailing list which is archived so<br> >> everyone can read every post, yours too. Perhaps that line was added<br> >> automatically:)<br> >><br> >>><br> >>> Why do you think this statement is correct: “They are the main source<br> >>> of work for RIPE employees.” ??<br> >>><br> >>> Even if you think about auditing or maintaining RIPE DB, it would be<br> >>> strange to think that working with /16 requires 256 times more time and<br> >>> effort than working with /24.<br> >>> If you think about different "non-MAIN" services like Learning, then<br> >>> there is no difference between big and small LIR at all.<br> >>> Resources do not reflect all of these dependencies. And again you are<br> >>> talking about fairness.<br> >><br> >> In the fairness of use of learning resources, RPKI, Training you are<br> >> correct, yet we are talking about “cost of doing business” resources.<br> >> Since you seem to represent a biggest mobile telecom of Ukraine,<br> >> Kyivstar, and also the only IPv6-enabled large ISP in the country<br> >> (thanks for that btw) - what is your opinion re charging per resource<br> >> allocated, either by category method, or logarithmic method, or some<br> >> other (number of resources in use, objects in the database, etc.). Your<br> >> company makes heavy use of IPv4 and has millions of subscribers: what<br> >> does “fair” sounds like to you? Do you support extra fees for those who<br> >> have IPv4 available, or discount for those who have to make do with IPv6<br> >> only?<br> >><br> >> (Deleting hundreds of quoted lines below.)<br> >><br> >> — dk@hostmaster.ua “We had IPv6 before Kyivstar”<br> >><br> >>> -----Original Message-----<br> >>> From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of<br> >>> Mihail Fedorov<br> >>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2024 3:39 PM<br> >>> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net<br> >>> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Draft RIPE NCC<br> >>> Charging Scheme 2025 Proposals<br> >>><br> >>> Charging per ASN is even worse than just price increase. It is terrible<br> >>> and killing even more LIRs<br> >>><br> >>> Imagine rather new LIR who is trying to do business based on what is<br> >>> LIR intended for - providing LIR services to consumers. For example 30<br> >>> clients who requested ASN sponsorship during year.<br> >>> If charged per ASN they will pay twice more than huge corporations<br> >>> serving only purpose of their own. Those typically have just 1-2 ASNs<br> >>> and tons of resources attached to it. They are main source of work for<br> >>> RIPE staff and they should be funding expensive projects like Atlas and<br> >>> others.<br> >>><br> >>> Actually working LIRs also have business contracts/logic already<br> >>> established on current charging scheme and adding ASN fee will kill<br> >>> them.<br> >>><br> >>> Once again - why not just bill based on resources? It’s extremely easy.<br> >>> Oh, right, resource holders won’t like it :<br> >><br> >><br> >> _______________________________________________<br> >> members-discuss mailing list<br> >> members-discuss@ripe.net<br> >> <a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/">https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmembers-discuss&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cc7c3d19a075141d340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638484516237849363%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=5xPClT5Fo9cbujpjJnhEa0%2BXYp%2Bgqis8LyW0aB9q3pk%3D&reserved=0</a><br> >> Unsubscribe:<br> >> <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/admin%40roskomnadzor.io"> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fmembers-discuss%2Fadmin%2540roskomnadzor.io&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cc7c3d19a075141d340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638484516237858091%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Eks28Oq%2FTG5r5gT9wkniC7VADHmZ8Nw7dbov04Inx2Q%3D&reserved=0</a><br> >><br> ><br> > _______________________________________________<br> > members-discuss mailing list<br> > members-discuss@ripe.net<br> > <a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/">https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmembers-discuss&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cc7c3d19a075141d340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638484516237864817%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=RZzLuz3ktn8BGrksDewVFVy5eQ7MM%2FsgUvOecZojH2k%3D&reserved=0</a><br> > Unsubscribe:<br> > <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/sdy%40a-n-t.ru"> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fmembers-discuss%2Fsdy%2540a-n-t.ru&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cc7c3d19a075141d340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638484516237870617%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=sl80SSCaY3TeMV111wmgzWzt0qgsCCD5TjxTb4KA9Lg%3D&reserved=0</a><br> ><br> <br> <br> -----------------------------<br> С уважением Сербулов Дмитрий<br> ООО "Альфа Нет Телеком"<br> +7(498)785-8-000 раб.<br> +7(495)940-92-11 доп.<br> +7(925)518-10-69 сот.<br> <br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> members-discuss mailing list<br> members-discuss@ripe.net<br> <a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/">https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmembers-discuss&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cc7c3d19a075141d340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638484516237876231%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=KTgAjlc9s2VlvMGVIUBdfQgOaFcz04duH2MOVBVkVu8%3D&reserved=0</a><br> Unsubscribe: <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/kajtzu%40basen.net"> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fmembers-discuss%2Fkajtzu%2540basen.net&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cc7c3d19a075141d340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638484516237881488%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2F%2FPAq%2Fwp4bjWUAMxWFASb4GHSsKZ%2BlbdVJlWeLLbX%2FE%3D&reserved=0</a><br> </div> </span></font></div> </div> </body> </html>