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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=PL link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>of course, that the fee per IP will change the price in the market.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>if there is no fee and it does not generate any costs then no one moves it. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>it's simple when you pay for something you have to consider whether to pay for the resource or sell it <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>currently there are more than 15% of completely unused addresses.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>and I suppose that another 10% are addresses which, after cleaning up and paying fees, would be redundant or so insignificant that someone would either lease or sell them. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Which may end up on the exchange which will result in a drop in price and better availability for all who need IPv4 addresses <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Translated with DeepL.com (free version)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Best Regard’s / </span>Pozdrawiam<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Gabriel Sulka<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>-------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Firma Handlowo - Usługowa KOMPEX<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>34-400 Nowy Targ ul. Szaflarska 62A<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>tel(18) 264-60-55 pn-pt 09:30 - 17:00 sb. 09:30 - 13:00<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>www.kompex.pl ; bok@kompex.pl ; kompex@nowytarg.net<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Daniel Pearson<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 10, 2024 3:44 PM<br><b>To:</b> members-discuss@ripe.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [members-discuss] Charging Scheme 2025<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>IPv4 sells in the private market for anywhere from $40-$50 per address.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>When a /24 is worth $10,000~<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>When a /22 is worth $40,000~<br>When a /20 is worth $162,000~<o:p></o:p></p></div><p>Do you really think you will motivate someone to give them up by charging 0.1 EUR per address?<o:p></o:p></p><p>That's just a fantasy. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 4/10/24 8:34 AM, Mihail Fedorov wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>Hello. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Because it solves both purposes<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>- some small motivation for unused “hoarded” IP address space to be distributed back to those who suffer from total lack of them - at least a little bit will go back to market. There are still really A LOT of entities who hoard them not for the purpose of need (now or in future, commercial or not), but ONLY because some time ago v4 distribution was not managed properly. This, per my opinion, should be somehow resolved.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>- small LIR’s without large clients or subnets should not fund RIPE expensive projects on equal basis with transcontinental corporations. Latter will easily agree on 100x price increase just to knock off anyone else - still not even notice this fee. But existing fee and its increase is more than significant for smaller networks or someone trying to enter market.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>What I see in proposed schemes is total lack of choice. Let’s not pretend that increase to 1800, increase 1850 or increase to 1900 is actually a choice. It is not! And what I see in this mailing list is that almost everyone agree with this fact.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>My initial proposal remains the same: 0.1 EUR (adjusted to real RIPE financial needs) per v4 address in use. Absolutely flat and fair. It will be eventually distributed up to the IP end user by supply chain and be totally unnoticeable for them.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>At least there should be couple of more options in vote if community opinion really counted. Otherwise vote is nonsense, why it is needed at all?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 10 Apr 2024, at 16:09, Евгений Удовихин <a href="mailto:eudovihin@gmail.com"><eudovihin@gmail.com></a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>At least because large IP holders now have no motivation to release them. The dependence of the contribution on the number of addresses used will give an additional incentive not to keep unnecessary address space.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Ср, 10 апр. 2024 г. в 22:59, Michel Lanners <<a href="mailto:michel.lanners@lu-cix.lu">michel.lanners@lu-cix.lu</a>>:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Dear all, <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Why on earth is everybody trying to monetize IPv4, i.e. make RIPE fees dependant on IPv4 ressources?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>I completely fail to see why anybody should pay more for HOLDING any number of IPv4 ressources (or other ressources, by the way).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>It’s a different story for ressource transfers. So let those selling IPv4 pay a fee for the transfer! <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>And for the rest let’s stick to a real membership fee: one price irrespective of which services you use or not. The fitness center doesn’t charge you per minute, nor per device you use. It's a flat membership, full stop. Hopefully low enough so it doesn’t create a problem for anybody's bottom line.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><strong><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>Michel LANNERS</span></strong><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>CIO at LU-CIX Management G.I.E.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>--<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://www.luxchat.lu/" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=390 height=122 style='width:4.0625in;height:1.2708in' id="_x0000_i1025" src="https://www.lu-cix.lu/LOGO/sign-20231207.png"></span></a><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>Mail:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:michel.lanners@lu-cix.lu" target="_blank">michel.lanners@lu-cix.lu</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>Luxchat: @3eb2pdflrq57:<a href="http://01.lu-cix.luxchat.lu/" target="_blank">01.lu-cix.luxchat.lu</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>Phone: (+352) 28 99 29 92-81<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><strong><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>LU-CIX Management G.I.E.</span></strong><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><a href="https://www.google.com/maps/search/202,+Z.A.E.+Wolser+F?entry=gmail&source=g">202, Z.A.E. Wolser F</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>L-3290 Bettembourg<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><a href="https://www.lu-cix.lu/" target="_blank">lu-cix.lu</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><a href="https://www.luxchat.lu/" target="_blank">luxchat.lu</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><a href="https://luxembourg-internet-days.com/" target="_blank">luxembourg-internet-days.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><a href="https://www.lunog.lu/" target="_blank">lunog.lu</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>_______________________________________________<br>members-discuss mailing list<br><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br><a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/" target="_blank">https://mailman.ripe.net/</a><br>Unsubscribe:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/eudovihin%40gmail.com" target="_blank">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/eudovihin%40gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>_______________________________________________<br>members-discuss mailing list<br></span><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>members-discuss@ripe.net</span></a><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br></span><a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>https://mailman.ripe.net/</span></a><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br>Unsubscribe:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/mihail%40fedorov.net"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/mihail%40fedorov.net</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>members-discuss mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/">https://mailman.ripe.net/</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Unsubscribe: <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/daniel%40privatesystems.net">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/daniel%40privatesystems.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>