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<body><p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">Hello,</p>
<br /><p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">I agree. We are actually renting a server for offsite backups in Canada and the provider charges 1 Euro per month for 1 additional IP address. No way anyone would return unused IPv4 addresses.</p>
<br /><p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">But after seeing the new updated calculator we would definitely return part of our IPv6 allocation if the charging scheme category A should be chosen. The "free" enlargement from /32 to /29 suddenly costs 350 Euro per year.</p>
<br /><p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">-- </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">Kind regards</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;"> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">David</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;"> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">e-mail: d.bruha@virtis.cz</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">Dne čtvrtek 30. března 2023 15:22:15 CEST, Kaj Niemi napsal(a):</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> It won’t. I believe most will either a) rent out, or b) sell their unused IP</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> addresses if it becomes a choice between having to pay for the privilege of</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> keeping vs converting them to either continuous (renting out) or onetime</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> (sale) revenue.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> LIRs who have an acute IPv4 address deficit will, realistically, need to</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> procure more addresses on the free market. That is, if they intend to grow</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> their business and not let it stagnate.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> Kaj</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> Sent from my iPhone</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> ________________________________</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of José</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> Manuel Giner via members-discuss <members-discuss@ripe.net> Sent:</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> Wednesday, March 29, 2023 10:14:30 PM</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> To: members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net></p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Consultation on RIPE NCC</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> Charging Scheme</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> Hello,</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> I think it is very necessary to address the problem of LIRs that need</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> IPs in relation to LIRs that have +80% of their IPs unused.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> How to fix? maybe a pay per individual IP model?</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> For example: 0.25 €/year per IP.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> I think this will make those who have unused IPs give them back and</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> reduce speculation, which I think are the two big problems.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> Thanks!</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> --</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> José Manuel Giner</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fginernet.c</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> om%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cfffe6b8d017542a0100f08db311a3cc1%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc9</p>
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<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> sdata=XwY9HPEkXKXBM%2BpxqAxU5OSX6NNV%2FvP46yUJSfQIC0M%3D&reserved=0</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> On 17/03/2023 10:24, Simon-Jan Haytink wrote:</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > Dear all,</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > First off, I apologise for the length of this email, but I hope to cover</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > a number of points brought up in the consultation so far.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > I want to thank you again for your input so far on the models. We are</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > busy looking at all the feedback. We have also seen over 100 members</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > sign up for the Open House next week to discuss this further, so I</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > appreciate your interest in helping us to reach a good outcome.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > Looking at the feedback we've seen so far, there are a number of</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > questions and points raised where I can help to add clarity and also</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > answer some specific questions.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > 1. Some of you asked for a breakdown of the IPv4 address space held by</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > LIRs to help with your consideration of a category-based model. So here</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > is a chart with that information:</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > .net%2Fparticipate%2Fmail%2Fmember-and-community-consultations%2Fdistribut</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > ion-of-total-allocated-ipv4-per-lir.png&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cfffe6b8d017542a0</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > 100f08db311a3cc1%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638157760994</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > 623871%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > 6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=5gCFELEOWGX6ULpsEGUdpHHcczGA</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > ij3nMotVAWCFKXg%3D&reserved=0</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > I’d like to note that in the models we are developing, we are looking to</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > move to a model that charges per member rather than per LIR account. So</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > I also have an indicative spread of how many members would be in each</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > category in the model we shared:</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > .net%2Fparticipate%2Fmail%2Fmember-and-community-consultations%2Fmember-sp</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > read-across-categories.png&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cfffe6b8d017542a0100f08db311a3</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > cc1%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638157760994623871%7CUnkn</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > own%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJX</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > VCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=McgLLf5YS41Pc47Zbhz95myWZLA8TKDx0Jku5FjY2</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > Ao%3D&reserved=0</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > 2. To clarify what determines the category someone is placed within in</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > the model I shared, it is the highest score for just one of the</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > following types of resource:</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > - IPv4 allocations</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > - IPv6 allocations</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > - ASN assignments</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > - Independent resources (includes all resource assignments not in the</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > previous three categories, including all sponsored items)</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > Note: Independent resources are charged by number of assignments rather</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > than by the amount of IPs within the assignment.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > So if your highest score is for IPv4 allocations, then the amount for</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > IPv6 allocations, ASNs or independent resources does not contribute to</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > the category you are placed in. The highest score of the four defines</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > the category. The elements that we charge for in the categories or</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > separately can of course change or be refined based on your feedback.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > 3. Another person asked for comparison with other RIR charging schemes,</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > and I provide links to the information on their websites:</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > APNIC:</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.apn</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > ic.net%2Fget-ip%2Fapnic-membership%2Fhow-much-does-it-cost%2F&data=05%7C01</p>
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<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ari</p>
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<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > 0Yc%2BYrCoBdbeJlplnza7oU%3D&reserved=0 AFRINIC:</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fafrinic</p>
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<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > 71%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1</p>
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<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > UZ1B1MVD%2BFMYM%3D&reserved=0 LACNIC:</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lac</p>
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<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > 4. There was a question on how we charge for those who are still on the</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > waiting list and have not yet received any IPv4 address space. We are</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > still looking at how this might work and it is something I can bring up</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > during the Open House. Potentially, there could be a base membership fee</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > and another fee once IPv4 resources are received.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > 5. There was a request for comment on the idea that the RIPE NCC had</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > permitted multiple LIRs in order to allow some members to receive more</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > address space. In fact, the members themselves voted at the General</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > Meeting to allow this in 2016. There had been a resolution by the</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > Executive Board to stop the creation of multiple LIR accounts in 2015;</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > there was a lengthy discussion about this and the Board therefore asked</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > the members to discuss the issue and make a decision on the matter in</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > 2016.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > Board Resolution:</p>
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<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > reation-of-multiple-lir-accounts&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cfffe6b8d017542a0100f08d</p>
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<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > Membership Vote:</p>
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<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > Finally, there was a comment that we need to achieve a balance between</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > fairness and complexity. This comment really resonates with me, given</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > that there are possibly as many ways to charge as there are IPv6</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > addresses. At the Open House next week, I plan to present updated models</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > that take as much of your feedback as possible into account, and of</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > course I'll share that information afterwards with the full membership.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > Charging Scheme 2024 Open House:</p>
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<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > scheme-2024-consultation&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cfffe6b8d017542a0100f08db311a3cc</p>
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<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > Kind regards,</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > Simon Jan Haytink</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > Finance Director</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > RIPE NCC</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > _______________________________________________</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > members-discuss mailing list</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > members-discuss@ripe.net</p>
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<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> _______________________________________________</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> members-discuss mailing list</p>
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