<html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"> </head> <body> Good day, colleagues. I also did not understand how to correctly perform the calculation for our LIR. We have few resources of our own, but we are a sponsor for several dozen objects. How is the calculation performed in this case? <div class="moz-cite-prefix">16.03.2023 16:06, Dmitry Kohmanyuk пише: </div> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:bc09b704-871b-4a9f-88b6-3b59b16e3898@app.fastmail.com"> <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"> <title></title> <style type="text/css">p.MsoNormal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style> <p class="p1" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;font-stretch:normal;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;-webkit-text-size-adjust:auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width:0px;text-decoration-line:none;">Good afternoon, my fellow members! <p class="p2" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;font-stretch:normal;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;min-height:21px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;-webkit-text-size-adjust:auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width:0px;text-decoration-line:none;"> <p class="p1" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;font-stretch:normal;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;-webkit-text-size-adjust:auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width:0px;text-decoration-line:none;">I represent Hostmaster LLC, a Ukrainian domain registry. We are operating in Ukraine and abroad, using dedicated servers to support our infrastructure. We are 21 years old. Back in 2001, we self-funded our operations, and never took a loan or donation. Resource-wise, we have got our /21 PA, our pre-runout /21, two /24 PI of 20th century style IP blocks (those were our start-up resources), and /48 and /32 of contemporary century IP, plus two AS numbers; we also sponsor a couple of small projects with their small allocations. <p class="p2" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;font-stretch:normal;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;min-height:21px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;-webkit-text-size-adjust:auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width:0px;text-decoration-line:none;"> <p class="p1" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;font-stretch:normal;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;-webkit-text-size-adjust:auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width:0px;text-decoration-line:none;">Both proposed schemes would raise our fees, to exactly the same 2200 EUR. While we can afford them I cannot consider our organization large. Since the latest escalation of the bloody war by the russian federation in 2022 we have had to double our network footprint to be disaster-proof. We aren't making more money either as currency had lost 25% to the euro. We had to spend some money on generator fuel for our office and high-capacity batteries for staff and to shut down equipment in cities under enemy fire. <p class="p2" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;font-stretch:normal;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;min-height:21px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;-webkit-text-size-adjust:auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width:0px;text-decoration-line:none;"> <p class="p1" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;font-stretch:normal;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;-webkit-text-size-adjust:auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width:0px;text-decoration-line:none;">I can imagine many Ukrainian ISPs, hosting, and cloud providers in a similar situation, or a company in Turkey can be similarly affected by currency depreciation. <p class="p2" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;font-stretch:normal;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;min-height:21px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;-webkit-text-size-adjust:auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width:0px;text-decoration-line:none;"> <p class="p1" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;font-stretch:normal;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;-webkit-text-size-adjust:auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width:0px;text-decoration-line:none;">Speaking of the second option, consider an idea of a "variable" ipv4 charge to be impossible to implement correctly. With a cap we are giving an advantage to large organizations; without it, we may risk some of them going to migrate to other RIRs thus significantly impacting NCC revenue. We had decided this once; we seek ipv6 adoption making everyone request appropriate block at once; what going back in time is going to do? If we are so concerned about merging extra LIR accounts we can make it cost more. <p class="p2" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;font-stretch:normal;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;min-height:21px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;-webkit-text-size-adjust:auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width:0px;text-decoration-line:none;"> <p class="p1" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;font-stretch:normal;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;-webkit-text-size-adjust:auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width:0px;text-decoration-line:none;">I propose to vote no on both options, thus keeping the current flat fee while adjusting it as the economic situation changes. <p class="p2" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;font-stretch:normal;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;min-height:21px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;-webkit-text-size-adjust:auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width:0px;text-decoration-line:none;"> <p class="p1" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;font-stretch:normal;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;-webkit-text-size-adjust:auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width:0px;text-decoration-line:none;">I am also specifically against: <ol class="ol1" style="list-style-type:decimal;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;-webkit-text-size-adjust:auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width:0px;text-decoration-line:none;"> <li class="li1" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:normal;">including sponsored resources into category sizing while charging for them by their count, as it is double dipping into member pockets; </li> <li class="li1" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:normal;">charging for AS number, own or sponsored, as those are plentiful; </li> <li class="li1" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:normal;">making use of IPv6 charging categories, for the next decade, as we are still dealing with dual stack world. ARIN made the mistake of charging more for dual-stack members, thus discouraging IPv6 adoption; they later "fixed" it by allowing cheaper /36 allocations; </li> <li class="li1" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:normal;">making any fees for changing a sponsor (I am thinking of everything a fee can be added to, possibly.) </li> </ol> <p class="p2" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;font-stretch:normal;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;min-height:21px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;-webkit-text-size-adjust:auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width:0px;text-decoration-line:none;"> <p class="p1" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;font-stretch:normal;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;-webkit-text-size-adjust:auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width:0px;text-decoration-line:none;">Looking at the proposed budget of 40 million euros and way over twenty thousand LIR accounts (forecasting a 10% drop of them due to mergers and some reserve for non-paying members) an equal member fee would be under 2000€. The vast reserves of NCC should allow for softening the blow of the economic downturn, and dozens of proposed cost-cutting measures (staff headcount, office location, travel, donations to external parties, free member events, and others.) <p class="p2" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;font-stretch:normal;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;min-height:21px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;-webkit-text-size-adjust:auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width:0px;text-decoration-line:none;"> <p class="p1" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;font-stretch:normal;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;-webkit-text-size-adjust:auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width:0px;text-decoration-line:none;">I also see a meeting fee is up 14% already. <p class="p1" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;font-stretch:normal;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;-webkit-text-size-adjust:auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width:0px;text-decoration-line:none;">assuming some people only get reimbursed after the trip happens, and a lot of attendees not paying their bill two months earlier. <p class="p2" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;font-stretch:normal;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;min-height:21px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;-webkit-text-size-adjust:auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width:0px;text-decoration-line:none;"> <p class="p1" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;font-stretch:normal;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;-webkit-text-size-adjust:auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width:0px;text-decoration-line:none;">May I suggest an NCC tip field instead on the annual invoice: this would allow members who feel they benefit a lot but pay too little to contribute more but on their own will. <div style="font-family:Arial;"> </div> <div style="font-family:Arial;">On a serious note I would like us all to come to agreement on a formula that is just and fair. Judging on amount of critique on the list, we do not have this, yet. </div> <div style="font-family:Arial;"> </div> <div style="font-family:Arial;">-- <a href="mailto:dk@hostmaster.ua" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">dk@hostmaster.ua</a> </div> <div style="font-family:Arial;"> </div> <fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset> <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mailman.ripe.net/">https://mailman.ripe.net/</a> Unsubscribe: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/o.zinkov%40kyivlink.com">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/o.zinkov%40kyivlink.com</a> </pre> </blockquote> <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- ---------------------- <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://kyivlink.com">https://kyivlink.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://t.me/kyivlink">https://t.me/kyivlink</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://fb.com/kyivlink">https://fb.com/kyivlink</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://instagram.com/kyivlink">https://instagram.com/kyivlink</a> 044 332 9555 093 332 9555 </pre> </body> </html>