<html><head>  <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252"> <style type="text/css">P.ImprintUniqueID { MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt } LI.ImprintUniqueID { MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt } DIV.ImprintUniqueID { MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt } TABLE.ImprintUniqueIDTable { MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt } DIV.Section1 { page: Section1 } </style> </head><body style="zoom: 0%;"><div dir="auto">The nonprofit and educational organisations still need to pay for water, electricity,etc. </div> <div dir="auto">Even if they are nonprofit they still can provide ISP services. So it should be normal operational cost, which should be considered in budget. </div> <div dir="auto">So from my side, as long as entity consumes resources (which are shortage off especially), they should pay normal price. </div> <div dir="auto">Pobierz aplikację <a href="https://bluemail.me">BlueMail dla systemu Android</a></div> <div class="gmail_quote" >W dniu 9 mar 2023, o 14:16, użytkownik Ammar Talal Abdullah Al-Masaabi via members-discuss <<a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss@ripe.net</a>> napisał: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> <div>Hello, I agree that the charging scheme needs to be reviewed, and I believe it should be based on a few factors 1) The type of the institution (educational, profitable, non-profitable, etc..). 2) The number of /24's owned by the organization. I suppose that profitable organizations can pay more to support the RIPE NCC operations, as they benefit more from the IP addresses, while the educational & non-profitable organizations don't get monetary benefits from using the IP addresses owned by them (I work in a profitable organization btw). Best regards, </div> <table class="ImprintUniqueIDTable" style="WIDTH: 100%; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td style="BORDER-TOP: #bfbfbf 2px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 10px; PADDING-TOP: 10px"> <table class="ImprintUniqueIDTable" style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td>Ammar Talal Abdullah Al-Masaabi Network & Security Team Leader</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 10px"> <table class="ImprintUniqueIDTable" style="WIDTH: auto; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td style="PADDING-RIGHT: 5px"><img width="13" height="15" style="border: 0px Solid ;" src="cid:image075ea3.JPG@0678c1fd.498e899b"></td> <td style="PADDING-RIGHT: 15px">+9671-752-1801</td> <td style="PADDING-LEFT: 10px; BORDER-LEFT: #000001 2px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5px"> <img width="11" height="15" style="border: 0px Solid ;" src="cid:image1495f4.JPG@c4a14f85.49a4e521"></td> <td>+967777070772</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="PADDING-RIGHT: 5px"><img width="16" height="15" style="border: 0px Solid ;" src="cid:imagee6f9a0.JPG@24922d85.4b932821"></td> <td style="PADDING-RIGHT: 15px">+9671-752-1403</td> <td style="PADDING-LEFT: 10px; BORDER-LEFT: #000001 2px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5px"> <img width="19" height="15" style="border: 0px Solid ;" src="cid:image2bc7f2.JPG@d5a3e76c.45a653e1"></td> <td><a href="mailto:a.talal@teleyemen.com.ye" title="Click to send email to Ammar Talal Abdullah Al-Masaabi" target="" style="font-family:SimSun;">a.talal@teleyemen.com.ye</a></td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="BORDER-TOP: #000001 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 5px"> <table class="ImprintUniqueIDTable" style="WIDTH: 100%; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td><a href="https://www.teleyemen.com.ye" target=""><img width="285" height="100" style="border: 0px Solid ;" src="cid:imageb17986.JPG@bbef70f5.44b46c97"></a></td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="BORDER-TOP: #bfbfbf 2px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #bfbfbf 2px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 10px; PADDING-TOP: 10px"> Disclaimer: This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the intended recipients. If you are not an intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify us immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Therefore we do not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version.</td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <div>-----Original Message----- From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Will van Gulik Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2023 5:55 PM To: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Consultation on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2024 CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Hi Everyone, I agree with this point, the IPv4 calculation in model 2 is rough on small companies. We have to remember that small & early ISPs received decently big pools a long time ago, which would impact their yearly fees, by 4 times in the case I measured. For instance, if you got a /19 around 2000, and were eligble for a last /22, you're already in the " Large " group, which is quite hard. So I'm totally with Martin on that one. Also, I think that the model 1 pricing is rough, if adopted, I think we will see a lot of people (individuals with LIR for instance), dropping their voting right to move their ressources to an LIR. We would have a huge amount of income from transfers the first years, and then we would loose the diversity of votes for small entities. In any case, I fear that only " the rich " will be able to vote and keep their ressources going on. Adopting any of these new charging schem would cause a lot of companies to move their ressources to optimize their fees. I'm not sure that's a useful move, as it would cause a lot of administrative troubles and load on the NCC. Kind regards, Will van Gulik Nimag Networks On Tue, Mar 07, 2023 at 12:16:26PM +0100, Martin Volf wrote: >Hello, > >in my opinion the IPv4 Category Calculation in the provided XLSX file >is too strict. Maybe doubling the Max Assignments values would be more >appropriate, i.e.: > > Extra Small1024 > Small4096 > Medium16384 > Large65536 > Extra Large> > >instead of: > > Extra Small512 > Small2048 > Medium8192 > Large32768 > Extra Large> > >Best regards, > >Martin Volf >Dragon Internet a.s. >AS15614 > >On Tue, 7 Mar 2023, Simon Jan Haytink wrote: > >> Dear RIPE NCC members, >> >> We would like to re-open the consultation we began with the >> membership in >> 2021 on the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme model, and we would like to >> carry out that consultation well in advance of the RIPE NCC General >> Meeting (GM) May 2023. >> >> In 2021, we presented on this topic at the GM, and we also surveyed >> our members and held an open house to get direct input on the >> charging scheme model that members would like to see implemented by >> the RIPE NCC. The outcome at that stage of the consultation was that >> there were strong cases made for both the current one-LIR, one-fee >> model and for a category-based model that would charge based on the >> number of resources held by a member. A strong case was also made to >> charge for all resources allocated or assigned by the RIPE NCC, including ASNs, and to charge a fee for transfers. >> >> The Executive Board decided to suspend the consultation in light of >> the war in Ukraine, but we are eager to decide on a way forward on >> this matter together with the membership. >> >> One of the main reasons that we would like to advance the discussion >> on the charging model is that we expect many members with multiple >> LIR accounts who received resources in 2021 to merge these accounts >> in the coming year. This means that the income the RIPE NCC receives >> will be reduced by a significant amount and we will need to ensure >> that our charging model allows us to collect the revenue required to >> maintain our operations. We believe that a category-based model would be best suited to cover this consolidation risk. >> Continuing with the existing model would mean that an increase in >> fees for all members would be required. Our ultimate goal is to >> arrive at a charging scheme model that will be sustainable for many >> years to come, meeting the needs of the RIPE NCC’s members. >> >> To help with discussion and to provide something tangible for members >> to assess, we are putting forward two draft models for members to >> review. These models can be summarised as: >> >> Model 1: A “one-LIR, one-fee” model based on the current RIPE NCC >> Charging Scheme 2023 that also charges for independent resources, >> ASNs, transfers and changes in business structure such as Mergers & Acquisitions. >> >> Model 2: A category-based model that charges per member (not per LIR >> account) and is based on resources registered and that also charges >> for independent resources, ASNs, transfers and changes in business >> structure such as Mergers & Acquisitions. >> >> In order to allow members to form an opinion based on their own >> situation, we are providing an Excel sheet that will allow you to >> calculate the fees you would pay under each of the draft models. It >> is important to be aware that at this stage, the numbers assigned for >> each item are indicative and would be reviewed in light of the >> discussion with members. We plan to review these figures following >> consultation with the members, and giving input on those figures would greatly help to arrive at a good model. >> >> You can download the Excel sheet from: >> https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/member-and-community-consultati >> ons/member-calculator-charging-scheme-2024.xlsx >> >> We also plan to hold another Open House meeting on the Charging >> Scheme in March to further discuss the charging scheme models. The >> Executive Board will then take the input and decide on one or more >> charging schemes for the membership to vote on at the GM to be held >> on 24 May 2023. The outcome of that vote will determine the charging >> scheme model to be used in the coming years. >> >> I ask that you provide your input on this important consultation on >> the Membership Discussion mailing list (members-discuss@ripe.net) by 26 April. >> Input provided up to this date will be considered by the Board when >> formulating the charging schemes to be proposed for the GM. Input >> after this date is of course also welcome although it might not be >> reflected in the schemes put forward to the membership at the GM. >> >> The consultation will also be recorded and available from: >> https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/member-and-community-consultati >> ons >> >> I look forward to your input. >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Simon Jan Haytink >> Finance Director >> RIPE NCC >> >> Summary >> >> 7 March: Start consultation with membership on RIPE NCC Charging >> Scheme model >> 21 March: Open House to discuss charging scheme with membership >> 24 March: Executive Board meeting to discuss input received so far >> 12 April: Publication of Draft RIPE NCC Charging Schemes 2024 >> 26 April: Publication of Final RIPE NCC Charging Schemes to be voted >> on by members >> 24 May: RIPE NCC General Meeting May 2023 >> >> References >> >> Open House and Survey Results >> https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-open-ho >> use-charging-scheme-principles >> >> Presentation at General Meeting >> https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2021/docume >> ntation-and-archive/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme-discussion.pdf >_______________________________________________ >members-discuss mailing list >members-discuss@ripe.net >https://mailman.ripe.net/ >Unsubscribe: >https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/will%40nimag.net _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://mailman.ripe.net/ Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/a.talal%40teleyemen.com.ye </div> <pre class="blue"><hr> members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net <a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/">https://mailman.ripe.net/</a> Unsubscribe: <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/piotr%40karwos.hk">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/piotr%40karwos.hk</a> </pre></blockquote></div></body></html>