<html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Exchange Server"> <style></style> </head> <body> <div> <div id="x_nine_body_n1594202012567" class="x_nine_body" dir="auto" style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; line-height:1.3; color:rgb(31,73,125)"> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto"> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto"> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto">Hello, </div> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto"><br> </div> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto">I couldn't say better, each time I have needed to transfert or merge some LIRs it's a pain in the a**.</div> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto"><br> </div> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto">For example my latest transfert #225596. It cost to me months and months to confirm the merge between two companies. Now I have one LIR and a sub LIR for 24months... Yeay... See you again in 2022 to finish the transfert.</div> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto"><br> </div> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto">I hope the RIPE could simplify the process.</div> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto"><br> </div> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto">Such a cumbersome process will inevitably raise the question: Is it really necessary that I waste 6 months of my time for a database which will not reflect reality anyway for at least 2 two years?</div> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto"><br> </div> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto">In the meantime, it is very likely that the people in charge of RIPE have left or have changed jobs. Or that documents are more difficult to find, etc.</div> </div> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto"><br> </div> <div id="x_nine-sign-n1594193990489" class="x_nine_signature" dir="auto"> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto">Regards,</div> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto"><br> </div> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto">Boris PASCAULT</div> </div> </div> <div id="x_nine-sign-n1594202012567" class="x_nine_signature" dir="auto"> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto">Ecritel</div> </div> </div> <div class="x_quoted_output_body"> <div id="x_quoted_header_n1594202012567" class="x_quoted_header_editor" dir="auto"> <hr class="x_nine-pg" style="border:none; height:1px; color:#E1E1E1; background-color:#E1E1E1"> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto" style="border:none; padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> <span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><b>De :</b> Clement Cavadore <ccavadore@vedege.net><br> <b>Envoyé :</b> lundi 6 juillet 2020 15:18<br> <b>À :</b> members-discuss@ripe.net<br> <b>Objet :</b> [members-discuss] Administrative procedures within RIPE NCC: Any way to soften it ?<br> </span></div> </div> <br type="attribution"> </div> </div> <font size="2"><span style="font-size:10pt;"> <div class="PlainText">Dear members,<br> <br> I wanted to share my recent experience regarding the painful<br> administrative & bureaucratic procedures within RIPE NCC, and start a<br> discussion with you, in order to see if some of you feel the same, and,<br> if its the case, if we could make it evolve in order to enhance the<br> "customer experience" :-).<br> <br> TL;DR: I feel that the due diligence procedures at RIPE NCC are too<br> strict, and that they should be a bit more human when having to deal<br> with administrative changes.<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> >From my own experience, here is what happenned to me:<br> <br> One of my customer (let's call them A) has been a member for years, and<br> it has been acquired/reorganized multiple times before when I started<br> to work with him. As a responsible (new) LIR admin, I wanted to make<br> its administrative status relevant with their real situation.<br> That was a big mistake! <br> While I can admit that the juridic situation was quite complex, we had<br> to spend months in exchanging documents in order to justify every move,<br> but in the end, the only option that we had, was to open a new LIR, and<br> move its resources from the "legacy LIR" to the new one. We decided at<br> some time, that it was not worth to waste more time than already done,<br> so we did that, and A' was born (and we are going to move A resources<br> to A').<br> <br> <br> ... but a few months later: Same player play again !<br> Another customer of mine (B, which is a sister company of A), needed<br> its membership to be updated, as their original structure has been<br> terminated (integrated in another company, partial merge, rename etc).<br> => Well, after weeks of legal documents exchange, we were told by the<br> RIPE NCC that all the justifications have been verified, and that was<br> we were initially asking was OK... BUT... that they couldn't simply<br> change the name of its LIR, because it has not been a full<br> acquisition. The only valid/useable option would be to make B become a<br> member on its own, and to transfer from the former LIR to that shiny<br> new LIR (other option was to move the resources in A' and make<br> assignations for B, but that is not an option for the end user's org).<br> <br> I have been talking with others members among my contacts, and they all<br> say that having to deal with RIPE NCC on administrative topics is a<br> pain in the ass.<br> <br> <br> <br> My question is simple:<br> 1- Is there some ways to make RIPE NCC a bit more flexible, when the<br> situation allows it?<br> <br> 2- For my particular case: Given that the "historic LIRs" from A & B<br> only had some transferable resources, and given the fact that there<br> were clear justification: Why not simply allowing a LIR name change?<br> <br> <br> I cannot believe that the only option in order to sort out<br> administrative mess, is to open new membership and terminate older<br> membership. I know that RIPE NCC's income will lower in the next<br> future, due to LIR consolidation, but at the moment, I am a bit feeling<br> that the rigid procedures are only a mean for RIPE NCC to get new<br> opening fee and double billing for new members/future closed members.<br> <br> <br> For the RIPE NCC staff: I bet you could easily find which members I am<br> talking about (and if not, I can share the ticket numbers in private).<br> I can understand that your procedures have to be a bit strict in order<br> to avoid resources Hijacks/illegal transfers, but when the situations<br> seems understandable and correct, I'd like to see you exercise good<br> judgment when it seems valid justifications.<br> <br> I just do not want to disclose the member's name publicly, as they<br> didn't ask me to write this email. But since I am managing multiple<br> LIRs, I thought it would be interesting to deal that topic on the<br> membership level. If you have some experiences to share, go ahead !<br> <br> <br> Thanks for reading until the end !<br> -- <br> Clément Cavadore<br> <br> <br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> members-discuss mailing list<br> members-discuss@ripe.net<br> <a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/">https://mailman.ripe.net/</a><br> Unsubscribe: <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/noc%40ecritel.net"> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/noc%40ecritel.net</a><br> </div> </span></font> </body> </html>