<html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> </head> <body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""> Greetings, <div class="">I’ve merged 4 over the years, merging was very easy, NCC have always been up to the game, helping and pointing what I was missing. <div class="">How the hell a merge can take months and months? :D</div> <div class="">Are you not able to provide the needed docs?</div> <div class=""><br class=""> </div> <div class="">hand,</div> <div class="">jj</div> </div> <div><br class=""> <blockquote type="cite" class=""> <div class="">On 8 Jul 2020, at 12:54, @exploitation_reseau <<a href="mailto:noc@ecritel.net" class="">noc@ecritel.net</a>> wrote:</div> <br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> <div class=""> <div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""> <div id="x_nine_body_n1594202012567" class="x_nine_body" dir="auto" style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 1.3; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto"> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto"> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto">Hello, </div> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto"><br class=""> </div> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto">I couldn't say better, each time I have needed to transfert or merge some LIRs it's a pain in the a**.</div> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto"><br class=""> </div> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto">For example my latest transfert #225596. It cost to me months and months to confirm the merge between two companies. Now I have one LIR and a sub LIR for 24months... Yeay... See you again in 2022 to finish the transfert.</div> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto"><br class=""> </div> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto">I hope the RIPE could simplify the process.</div> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto"><br class=""> </div> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto">Such a cumbersome process will inevitably raise the question: Is it really necessary that I waste 6 months of my time for a database which will not reflect reality anyway for at least 2 two years?</div> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto"><br class=""> </div> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto">In the meantime, it is very likely that the people in charge of RIPE have left or have changed jobs. Or that documents are more difficult to find, etc.</div> </div> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto"><br class=""> </div> <div id="x_nine-sign-n1594193990489" class="x_nine_signature" dir="auto"> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto">Regards,</div> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto"><br class=""> </div> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto">Boris PASCAULT</div> </div> </div> <div id="x_nine-sign-n1594202012567" class="x_nine_signature" dir="auto"> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto">Ecritel</div> </div> </div> <div class="x_quoted_output_body"> <div id="x_quoted_header_n1594202012567" class="x_quoted_header_editor" dir="auto"> <hr class="x_nine-pg" style="border: none; height: 1px; color: rgb(225, 225, 225); background-color: rgb(225, 225, 225);"> <div class="x_nine-pg" dir="auto" style="border: none; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">De :</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Clement Cavadore <<a href="mailto:ccavadore@vedege.net" class="">ccavadore@vedege.net</a>><br class=""> <b class="">Envoyé :</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>lundi 6 juillet 2020 15:18<br class=""> <b class="">À :</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" class="">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br class=""> <b class="">Objet :</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[members-discuss] Administrative procedures within RIPE NCC: Any way to soften it ?<br class=""> </span></div> </div> <br type="attribution" class=""> </div> </div> <font size="2" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class=""> <div class="PlainText">Dear members,<br class=""> <br class=""> I wanted to share my recent experience regarding the painful<br class=""> administrative & bureaucratic procedures within RIPE NCC, and start a<br class=""> discussion with you, in order to see if some of you feel the same, and,<br class=""> if its the case, if we could make it evolve in order to enhance the<br class=""> "customer experience" :-).<br class=""> <br class=""> TL;DR: I feel that the due diligence procedures at RIPE NCC are too<br class=""> strict, and that they should be a bit more human when having to deal<br class=""> with administrative changes.<br class=""> <br class=""> <br class=""> <br class=""> <br class=""> From my own experience, here is what happenned to me:<br class=""> <br class=""> One of my customer (let's call them A) has been a member for years, and<br class=""> it has been acquired/reorganized multiple times before when I started<br class=""> to work with him. As a responsible (new) LIR admin, I wanted to make<br class=""> its administrative status relevant with their real situation.<br class=""> That was a big mistake!<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""> While I can admit that the juridic situation was quite complex, we had<br class=""> to spend months in exchanging documents in order to justify every move,<br class=""> but in the end, the only option that we had, was to open a new LIR, and<br class=""> move its resources from the "legacy LIR" to the new one. We decided at<br class=""> some time, that it was not worth to waste more time than already done,<br class=""> so we did that, and A' was born (and we are going to move A resources<br class=""> to A').<br class=""> <br class=""> <br class=""> ... but a few months later: Same player play again !<br class=""> Another customer of mine (B, which is a sister company of A), needed<br class=""> its membership to be updated, as their original structure has been<br class=""> terminated (integrated in another company, partial merge, rename etc).<br class=""> => Well, after weeks of legal documents exchange, we were told by the<br class=""> RIPE NCC that all the justifications have been verified, and that was<br class=""> we were initially asking was OK... BUT... that they couldn't simply<br class=""> change the name of its LIR, because it has not been a full<br class=""> acquisition. The only valid/useable option would be to make B become a<br class=""> member on its own, and to transfer from the former LIR to that shiny<br class=""> new LIR (other option was to move the resources in A' and make<br class=""> assignations for B, but that is not an option for the end user's org).<br class=""> <br class=""> I have been talking with others members among my contacts, and they all<br class=""> say that having to deal with RIPE NCC on administrative topics is a<br class=""> pain in the ass.<br class=""> <br class=""> <br class=""> <br class=""> My question is simple:<br class=""> 1- Is there some ways to make RIPE NCC a bit more flexible, when the<br class=""> situation allows it?<br class=""> <br class=""> 2- For my particular case: Given that the "historic LIRs" from A & B<br class=""> only had some transferable resources, and given the fact that there<br class=""> were clear justification: Why not simply allowing a LIR name change?<br class=""> <br class=""> <br class=""> I cannot believe that the only option in order to sort out<br class=""> administrative mess, is to open new membership and terminate older<br class=""> membership. I know that RIPE NCC's income will lower in the next<br class=""> future, due to LIR consolidation, but at the moment, I am a bit feeling<br class=""> that the rigid procedures are only a mean for RIPE NCC to get new<br class=""> opening fee and double billing for new members/future closed members.<br class=""> <br class=""> <br class=""> For the RIPE NCC staff: I bet you could easily find which members I am<br class=""> talking about (and if not, I can share the ticket numbers in private).<br class=""> I can understand that your procedures have to be a bit strict in order<br class=""> to avoid resources Hijacks/illegal transfers, but when the situations<br class=""> seems understandable and correct, I'd like to see you exercise good<br class=""> judgment when it seems valid justifications.<br class=""> <br class=""> I just do not want to disclose the member's name publicly, as they<br class=""> didn't ask me to write this email. But since I am managing multiple<br class=""> LIRs, I thought it would be interesting to deal that topic on the<br class=""> membership level. If you have some experiences to share, go ahead !<br class=""> <br class=""> <br class=""> Thanks for reading until the end !<br class=""> --<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""> Clément Cavadore<br class=""> <br class=""> <br class=""> <br class=""> _______________________________________________<br class=""> members-discuss mailing list<br class=""> <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" class="">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br class=""> <a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/" class="">https://mailman.ripe.net/</a><br class=""> Unsubscribe:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/noc%40ecritel.net" class="">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/noc%40ecritel.net</a><br class=""> </div> </span></font><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""> </div> </blockquote> </div> <br class=""> </body> </html>