<html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252"> <style type="text/css" style="display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} </style> </head> <body dir="ltr"> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Hello,</div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> The same case happened to me, 6 months of nonsense, so I decided to take an action - to run for RIPE board, I wrote in my agenda that RIPE is Bureaucratic-Centered and not LIR-Centered, unfortunately I received only 15% of the total votes. A very strong system worked against me to make sure that no changes will be made in RIPE.<br> </div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Regarding the democracy that was written here, the voting system in RIPE is that the elected #1 can choose who will be elected after him in the same GM, by asking the voters of him who to vote after him. That kind of voting system will never allow changes in RIPE, will never allow new spirits in RIPE, taking into account that elected #1 already have a position and power in RIPE board, taking into account that censorship was implemented by the same board.<br> </div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> RIPE is being controlled by the big enterprises and by the universities, not by the common LIR.</div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Can a representative of RIPE NCC join in and write what is the average ticket resolution time for similar cases (mergers/transfers/etc) for big enterprises (LIR's with high number of resources) and for universities ? (compared to the average ticket resolution time for such cases for all LIR's ? )<br> </div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> The costs of RIPE NCC which are related to human resources, don't comply with the actual responsibilities of RIPE nor with the quality of service that RIPE is providing, and clearly shows that RIPE is an inefficient organization. The only reason that I see for the long time and very tedious processes is to justify the high number of employees in RIPE NCC, to justify the major expenses of RIPE NCC for human resources, unneeded work is "being created".<br> </div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Currently there is an action by RIPE NCC Board Chairman to censor candidates in the next elections in order to make sure that RIPE NCC will not change for the best of everyone and that no one will dig in RIPE NCC expenses.</div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> On 14th of April 2020 I received the following response from RIPE NCC CFO Gwen van Berne, regarding my request for transparency to RIPE NCC Board of RIPE NCC providers:</div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> ------<br> </div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <i><span>Thanks so much for your interest in RIPE NCC’s transactions. The Finance department sees it as one of its primary roles to give the membership full insight in the financial obligations of our association. <br> </span></i> <div><i><br> </i></div> <div><i>Further to your questions to the Executive Board (Christian Kaufmann) please be informed that the Finance department plans to create a Purchase History Calendar with Purchases above 100k and a Capital Investment overview with investments above 25k. <br> </i></div> <div><i><br> </i></div> <div><i>These overviews will be presented to the membership during the GM in May and I am confident that this will provide you with the information you are looking for. We will start with the 2019 details and we will make a comparison with 2018. Please allow us a couple of weeks to set up a proper format that also meets GDPR requirements. <br> </i></div> <div><i><br> </i></div> <i><span>Happy to answer any more questions in the meantime,</span></i></div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> ------<br> </div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Since than no update was received and they didn't do what they wrote, still no one knows who are RIPE NCC providers.<br> </div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Regards,</div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Elad</div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div id="appendonsend"></div> <hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex="-1"> <div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of @exploitation_reseau <noc@ecritel.net><br> <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 8, 2020 12:54 PM<br> <b>To:</b> Clement Cavadore <ccavadore@vedege.net><br> <b>Cc:</b> members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [members-discuss] Administrative procedures within RIPE NCC: Any way to soften it ?</font> <div> </div> </div> <style>  </style> <div> <div> <div id="x_x_nine_body_n1594202012567" class="x_x_nine_body" dir="auto" style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; line-height:1.3; color:rgb(31,73,125)"> <div class="x_x_nine-pg" dir="auto"> <div class="x_x_nine-pg" dir="auto"> <div class="x_x_nine-pg" dir="auto">Hello, </div> <div class="x_x_nine-pg" dir="auto"><br> </div> <div class="x_x_nine-pg" dir="auto">I couldn't say better, each time I have needed to transfert or merge some LIRs it's a pain in the a**.</div> <div class="x_x_nine-pg" dir="auto"><br> </div> <div class="x_x_nine-pg" dir="auto">For example my latest transfert #225596. It cost to me months and months to confirm the merge between two companies. Now I have one LIR and a sub LIR for 24months... Yeay... See you again in 2022 to finish the transfert.</div> <div class="x_x_nine-pg" dir="auto"><br> </div> <div class="x_x_nine-pg" dir="auto">I hope the RIPE could simplify the process.</div> <div class="x_x_nine-pg" dir="auto"><br> </div> <div class="x_x_nine-pg" dir="auto">Such a cumbersome process will inevitably raise the question: Is it really necessary that I waste 6 months of my time for a database which will not reflect reality anyway for at least 2 two years?</div> <div class="x_x_nine-pg" dir="auto"><br> </div> <div class="x_x_nine-pg" dir="auto">In the meantime, it is very likely that the people in charge of RIPE have left or have changed jobs. Or that documents are more difficult to find, etc.</div> </div> <div class="x_x_nine-pg" dir="auto"><br> </div> <div id="x_x_nine-sign-n1594193990489" class="x_x_nine_signature" dir="auto"> <div class="x_x_nine-pg" dir="auto">Regards,</div> <div class="x_x_nine-pg" dir="auto"><br> </div> <div class="x_x_nine-pg" dir="auto">Boris PASCAULT</div> </div> </div> <div id="x_x_nine-sign-n1594202012567" class="x_x_nine_signature" dir="auto"> <div class="x_x_nine-pg" dir="auto">Ecritel</div> </div> </div> <div class="x_x_quoted_output_body"> <div id="x_x_quoted_header_n1594202012567" class="x_x_quoted_header_editor" dir="auto"> <hr class="x_x_nine-pg" style="border:none; height:1px; color:#E1E1E1; background-color:#E1E1E1"> <div class="x_x_nine-pg" dir="auto" style="border:none; padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> <span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><b>De :</b> Clement Cavadore <ccavadore@vedege.net><br> <b>Envoyé :</b> lundi 6 juillet 2020 15:18<br> <b>À :</b> members-discuss@ripe.net<br> <b>Objet :</b> [members-discuss] Administrative procedures within RIPE NCC: Any way to soften it ?<br> </span></div> </div> <br type="attribution"> </div> </div> <font size="2"><span style="font-size:10pt"> <div class="x_PlainText">Dear members,<br> <br> I wanted to share my recent experience regarding the painful<br> administrative & bureaucratic procedures within RIPE NCC, and start a<br> discussion with you, in order to see if some of you feel the same, and,<br> if its the case, if we could make it evolve in order to enhance the<br> "customer experience" :-).<br> <br> TL;DR: I feel that the due diligence procedures at RIPE NCC are too<br> strict, and that they should be a bit more human when having to deal<br> with administrative changes.<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> >From my own experience, here is what happenned to me:<br> <br> One of my customer (let's call them A) has been a member for years, and<br> it has been acquired/reorganized multiple times before when I started<br> to work with him. As a responsible (new) LIR admin, I wanted to make<br> its administrative status relevant with their real situation.<br> That was a big mistake! <br> While I can admit that the juridic situation was quite complex, we had<br> to spend months in exchanging documents in order to justify every move,<br> but in the end, the only option that we had, was to open a new LIR, and<br> move its resources from the "legacy LIR" to the new one. We decided at<br> some time, that it was not worth to waste more time than already done,<br> so we did that, and A' was born (and we are going to move A resources<br> to A').<br> <br> <br> ... but a few months later: Same player play again !<br> Another customer of mine (B, which is a sister company of A), needed<br> its membership to be updated, as their original structure has been<br> terminated (integrated in another company, partial merge, rename etc).<br> => Well, after weeks of legal documents exchange, we were told by the<br> RIPE NCC that all the justifications have been verified, and that was<br> we were initially asking was OK... BUT... that they couldn't simply<br> change the name of its LIR, because it has not been a full<br> acquisition. The only valid/useable option would be to make B become a<br> member on its own, and to transfer from the former LIR to that shiny<br> new LIR (other option was to move the resources in A' and make<br> assignations for B, but that is not an option for the end user's org).<br> <br> I have been talking with others members among my contacts, and they all<br> say that having to deal with RIPE NCC on administrative topics is a<br> pain in the ass.<br> <br> <br> <br> My question is simple:<br> 1- Is there some ways to make RIPE NCC a bit more flexible, when the<br> situation allows it?<br> <br> 2- For my particular case: Given that the "historic LIRs" from A & B<br> only had some transferable resources, and given the fact that there<br> were clear justification: Why not simply allowing a LIR name change?<br> <br> <br> I cannot believe that the only option in order to sort out<br> administrative mess, is to open new membership and terminate older<br> membership. I know that RIPE NCC's income will lower in the next<br> future, due to LIR consolidation, but at the moment, I am a bit feeling<br> that the rigid procedures are only a mean for RIPE NCC to get new<br> opening fee and double billing for new members/future closed members.<br> <br> <br> For the RIPE NCC staff: I bet you could easily find which members I am<br> talking about (and if not, I can share the ticket numbers in private).<br> I can understand that your procedures have to be a bit strict in order<br> to avoid resources Hijacks/illegal transfers, but when the situations<br> seems understandable and correct, I'd like to see you exercise good<br> judgment when it seems valid justifications.<br> <br> I just do not want to disclose the member's name publicly, as they<br> didn't ask me to write this email. But since I am managing multiple<br> LIRs, I thought it would be interesting to deal that topic on the<br> membership level. If you have some experiences to share, go ahead !<br> <br> <br> Thanks for reading until the end !<br> -- <br> Clément Cavadore<br> <br> <br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> members-discuss mailing list<br> members-discuss@ripe.net<br> <a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/">https://mailman.ripe.net/</a><br> Unsubscribe: <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/noc%40ecritel.net"> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/noc%40ecritel.net</a><br> </div> </span></font></div> </body> </html>