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<p>Hi!</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I am working for a small ISP in Germany with providing internet
to businesses, operating datacenters and FTTH/FTTC. You have not
won me over either.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I have the following remarks to your proposal:</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>- You say, that there is simply the reserved bit has to be
switched to "1". Simply changing a value which has ever been "0"
could and will break things on unclean implementations of the IPv4
protocol. So even if devices should not need updates, they could
see some unexpected header-value in there IPv4+ packets just
flowing through.</p>
<p>- You are stressing automatic updates of the OSs in the world. In
a perfect world you may have the posibility to get updates and
patches fast to the end-users. But this is not. You have old
computer/versions or simply companies and peoiple, who are not
updating there software regualarily (i.e. to not break things /
test updates thoeoughly)</p>
<p>- You are relying on the power of the end user, if they are
unable to reach a site. This is the problem with v6 at the moment
also. The content providers are not going to be in danger, that
their customers are unable to reach their site. If that would be
the case, Google or Facebook could just switch of there IPv4
connectivity and only be reachable via v6. But there is money
involved.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>You have requested comments on your idea and you have got them.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I would be interessted in your benefit from such an
implementation? You will not get new IPv4(+)-addresses within the
next two months. As already stated, the RIPE can not implement
this. Why are you unable to be happy with IPv6? Where are your
problems?</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>We have redesigned our network 4 years ago and we have no
problems with IPv6.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Matthias<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 26.04.20 um 11:58 schrieb Elad
Cohen:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DB7PR10MB215425F2143B20AF5150D6B3D6AE0@DB7PR10MB2154.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM">
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Stuart,</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
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<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
I don't have any trouble convincing you, the people that
responded are not reflecting the opinion of the vast majority of
internet companies and internet organizations - which needs
IPv4.</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Each and every person that I wasn't able to convince as you
wrote is an active deployer of IPv6 and earns his money from
deploying IPv6.</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Respectfully,</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Elad<br>
</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Stuart
Willet (primary) <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:stu@safehosts.co.uk"><stu@safehosts.co.uk></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, April 26, 2020 12:46 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Elad Cohen <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:elad@netstyle.io"><elad@netstyle.io></a>; Sander
Steffann <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sander@steffann.nl"><sander@steffann.nl></a>; Gert D�ring
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gert@space.net"><gert@space.net></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net"><members-discuss@ripe.net></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [members-discuss] Technical solution to
resolve the IPv4 Exhaustion problem and to add more 4, 294,
967, 296 IPv4 addresses that are needed in the world</font>
<div>�</div>
</div>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Respectfully
Elad, you are pushing your idea without considering the
consequences.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">There
is no operation against you, we are just trying to point
out the flaws in your idea.<br>
<br>
Just consider this, you are currently speaking with the
group that will inevitably be the ones to roll out your
idea. If you are having this much trouble convincing us
this is a good idea, how would the rest of the world hold
up?</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">�</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">You
keep saying this will work with existing IPv4 but it
simply won�t will it.
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">I
have a home internet connection provided by BT. They give
me an IPv4 and an IPv6 address.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Traffic
preferences IPv6 where it can.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">�</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">How
would IPv4+ be added in this scenario? Simple, a firmware
update would need to be made on my router. And every
router for every other BT customer.<br>
Same will apply for VirginMedia et-al.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">You
keep saying it won�t be needed unless there is NAT, but
most home routers use NAT.<br>
<br>
Please explain to me how you think Microsoft are going to
spend millions on your upgrade for zero benefit to them?<br>
Please explain how ISP�s will recall and replace millions
of set top boxes and modems?<br>
Please explain how upgrades are going to be done on end of
life switches and routers?</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Please
explain how every DNS server on the planet will be
upgraded seamlessly?</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">�</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Seriously,
if you are having this hard a time winning us over, you
don�t stand a chance.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">�</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Best,</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">�</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Stuart
Willet.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">�</span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;
padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-US"> members-discuss
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net">mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Elad Cohen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 26 April 2020 10:37<br>
<b>To:</b> Sander Steffann <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sander@steffann.nl"><sander@steffann.nl></a>;
Gert D�ring <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gert@space.net"><gert@space.net></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [members-discuss] Technical
solution to resolve the IPv4 Exhaustion problem and to
add more 4, 294, 967, 296 IPv4 addresses that are
needed in the world</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">�</p>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:black">Hello Everyone,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:black">�</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:black">What being done here is a cyber influence
operation against me, after I'm only trying to do good
to the community.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:black">�</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:black">Sander, you didn't mention any flaws,� can
you please write them here and I will answer each and
every one of them ?</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:black">�</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:black">First there was the IPv6 fans and now there
are the Spamhaus fans.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:black">�</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:black">Respectfully,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:black">Elad</span></p>
</div>
<div class="x_MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
align="center">
<hr width="98%" size="2" align="center">
</div>
<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:black">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">
members-discuss <<a
href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>>
on behalf of Sander Steffann <<a
href="mailto:sander@steffann.nl"
moz-do-not-send="true">sander@steffann.nl</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, April 26, 2020 12:28 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Gert D�ring <<a
href="mailto:gert@space.net" moz-do-not-send="true">gert@space.net</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">members-discuss@ripe.net</a>
<<a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">members-discuss@ripe.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [members-discuss] Technical solution
to resolve the IPv4 Exhaustion problem and to add more
4, 294, 967, 296 IPv4 addresses that are needed in the
world</span>
</p>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">�</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">Hi,<br>
<br>
> On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 10:51:13AM +0200, Bruno
Cordioli wrote:<br>
>> I think it is appropriate to close this
discussion here.<br>
>> Elad will eventually submit his proposed al
RIPE meeting or he'll write a<br>
>> RFC.<br>
> <br>
> Basically, this.<br>
<br>
Seconded<br>
<br>
> [...]<br>
> <br>
> Overall, as long as no implementations can be
provided (source code on<br>
> github etc) this sounds like a somewhat cheap
shot to make people believe<br>
> you're going to solve their IPv4 problems if they
just vote you to the<br>
> NCC executive board.� And I hope the NCC members
are smart enough to not<br>
> vote based on glorious promises, but on track
record, provable background,<br>
> etc.<br>
<br>
I have contacted Elad off-list and shown him many
fallacies in his design. He insisted implementation
and deployment of IPv4+ was easy. I told him he is
delusional and that I emailed him off-list as not to
shame him publicly, and all he said was:<br>
<br>
> Go ahead, shame me publicly and you will receive
the exact same answers, you are obviously have
interests regarding IPv6 and you are trying to avoid
from the world more IPv4 addresses just for your own
personal profit.<br>
> <br>
> You are obviously have illegal interests in Ripe
and this is the only reasons for your emails to me.<br>
<br>
There is no talking sense into this person. He is
oblivious to how the internet works and how hardware
and software upgrades are implemented and deployed.
Obviously pointing out his flaws means I have an
illegal interest somehow.<br>
<br>
I think Elad has already tried following Trump's
recent advice and we are seeing the consequences�<br>
<br>
Time to move on�<br>
Sander</span></p>
</div>
</div>
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</div>
<br>
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