<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">I would disagree with everything you said there.<div><br></div><div>Microsoft getting a large proportion of IO addressing doesn’t help, it hinders the issue. By that logic Google and Amazon and others would also get a large portion.</div><div><br></div><div>Resellers would have to learn a new addressing scheme. They don’t understand IPv4 now other wise their networks would be smaller that /16 and their public IP requirements for them and their customers would also be smaller.</div><div><br></div><div>And IPv4 has been more used in the last 5 than the previous 20, it is nonsense to think that it would take another 25 years to exhaust this.</div><div><br></div><div>It’ll take more than 25 years to exhaust IPv6.</div><div><br></div><div><br><br><div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On 25 Apr 2020, at 23:27, Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">
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In a round table of operating system vendors such as Microsoft and the five RIRs and routing equipment manufacturers, Microsoft will receive a high number of new IPv4+ addresses, so they will have an incentive to deploy the patch to their networking stack fast
(all the round table parties will have incentives to quickly create the patches to their systems).</div>
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IT resellers will not need to know to do anything besides firmware upgrades to routers and a manual patch update to an operating system (in case the specific end-user operating system is not set for automatic updating)<br>
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It took us approximately 25 years to reach the exhaustion of IPv4, it will take us more 25 years to reach the exhaustion of IPv4+, it will give a lot of time for proper and smooth transition to IPv6.<br>
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Respectfully,</div>
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Elad<br>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Ed Campbell <campbell@inca.ie><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 25, 2020 10:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [members-discuss] [SPAM] Re: Technical solution to resolve the IPv4 Exhaustion problem and to add more 4, 294, 967, 296 IPv4 addresses that are needed in the world</font>
<div> </div>
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<div dir="auto">IPv4 is just over allocated and mismanaged from its inception. Allocating /8’s to DoD etc was just a bad idea.
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<div>While I like your idea, the problem with it would be to get the likes of Microsoft to develop their stack to recognise it. The learning curve for dumb IT resellers would also be huge.</div>
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<div>The obvious solution is to force the adoption of IPv6 rather than go through another process that will also end up in exhaustion. It may have taken 20 years or so to exhaust IPv4, but the majority of those years weren’t influenced by 4G and now 5G where
the demand is going to be extreme. IPv6 is the clear way.</div>
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<div>Cheer,</div>
<div>Ed</div>
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<div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On 25 Apr 2020, at 20:01, Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> wrote:<br>
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I never created an RFC and not familiar with the process, but I wanted to discuss IPv4+ with Ripe members as I'm a Ripe LIR.<br>
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Respectfully,</div>
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Elad<br>
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<b>From:</b> info@cowmedia.de<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:53 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> members-discuss@ripe.net<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'noc xervers'; Elad Cohen<br>
<b>Subject:</b> AW: [SPAM] Re: [members-discuss] Technical solution to resolve the IPv4 Exhaustion problem and to add more 4, 294, 967, 296 IPv4 addresses that are needed in the world
<div><br>
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<span style="">Hi, </span></p>
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<span style=""> </span></p>
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<span style="">anyhow this is not the right list to discuss this. You need to create an RfC – but as IPv6 already exist there is no real chance of implementing this I would say.
</span></p>
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<span style=""> </span></p>
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<span style="">Michael</span></p>
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<span style=""> </span></p>
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<b>Von:</b> members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> <b>Im Auftrag von </b>
noc xervers<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Samstag, 25. April 2020 20:49<br>
<b>An:</b> 'Elad Cohen' <elad@netstyle.io>; members-discuss@ripe.net<br>
<b>Betreff:</b> [SPAM] Re: [members-discuss] Technical solution to resolve the IPv4 Exhaustion problem and to add more 4, 294, 967, 296 IPv4 addresses that are needed in the world</p>
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<span style="">That won't be IPv4 but a complete new protocol, and routers/switches/whatever won't support them.</span></p>
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<span style="">It's a better and cleaner solution to move to IPv6.</span></p>
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<span style=""> </span></p>
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<span style="">Cheers.</span></p>
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<b><span lang="PT">De:</span></b><span lang="PT"> members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net>
<b>Em Nome De </b>Elad Cohen<br>
<b>Enviada:</b> sábado, 25 de abril de 2020 20:21<br>
<b>Para:</b> members-discuss@ripe.net<br>
<b>Assunto:</b> [members-discuss] Technical solution to resolve the IPv4 Exhaustion problem and to add more 4, 294, 967, 296 IPv4 addresses that are needed in the world</span></p>
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<span lang="PT" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">Hello Everyone,</span></p>
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<span lang="PT" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">I want to share with you my technical solution to the "IPv4 Exhaustion" problem (without to upgrade each and every router that exist in the internet), using the below implementation there will be more 4,294,967,296
IPv4 addresses that the world needs so much:</span></p>
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<span lang="PT" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black"> </span></p>
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<span lang="PT" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">Currently in an IPv4 packet - the source address and the destination address are being represented each by four bytes, each of these four bytes are being displayed as: [0-255].[0-255].[0-255].[0-255]</span></p>
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<span lang="PT" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black"> </span></p>
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<span lang="PT" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">But it is up to us to choose how we want to display them, for example: four bytes can also be displayed as [0-65535].[0-65535] (two numbers and one dot, the two numbers are bigger because in total they also
being represented as four bytes)</span></p>
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<span lang="PT" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black"> </span></p>
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<span lang="PT" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">So there can be one set of 4,294,967,296 IPv4 addresses (the one that we know in the display format of [0-255].[0-255].[0-255].[0-255])</span></p>
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<span lang="PT" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black"> </span></p>
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<span lang="PT" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">and another set of 4,294,967,296 IPv4 addresses (with a new format of [0-65535].[0-65535])</span></p>
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<span lang="PT" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black"> </span></p>
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<span lang="PT" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">We need to have a mark, a flag, in the ip packet header - in order to know if the source address is of the old formatting (IPv4) or of the new formatting (lets call it IPv4+), for that mark the 'reserved
bit' in the ip header can be used, so in case the source address is of IPv4+ or in case that the destination address is of IPv4+ (or in case that both the source and destination addresses are of IPv4+) then the reserved bit in the ip header will be set to
1 , we then also need to know exactly if the source address is of IPv4+ or not (meaning of IPv4) and if the destination address is of IPv4+ or not (meaning of IPv4) - this can be done by marking the DF flag if the source address is of IPv4+ (and not marking
the DF flag if the source address is of IPv4) and marking the MF flag if the destination address is of IPv4+ (and not marking the MF flag if the destination address is of IPv4), by using the DF and MF bits which are related to fragmentation (whenever the reserved
bit is set to '1') we are losing the ip fragmentation functionality for any traffic with an IPv4+ address (for traffic between two IPv4 addresses, the reserved bit is not set to '1' and hence optional ip fragment functionality is unchanged)</span></p>
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<span lang="PT" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">We need to know the MTU before an IPv4+ packet will be sent, because no fragmentation will be able to be done with IPv4+ , the current "Path MTU Discovery" (RFC 1191) is not good for that case because it
is using the DF bit which we are using as well (and in IPv4+ traffic a DF flag set to 1 is marking that the source address is of IPv4+), and also ICMP protocol can be blocked by routers in the routing path, the solution is to send multiple udp requests (with
fixed known MTU sizes) to the destination address (lets call it IPv4+ handshake) - the destination address may or may not receive them (in case a router in the routing path have multiple upstreams and wasn't upgraded to an upper version that supports IPv4+
then it will not recognize the reserved bit and the DF and MF bits related to it, it will not recognize the new IPv4+ addresses and even if the reserved bit is set to '1' and MF flag is set to '1' in the ip packet - it will route to to the destination address
just like it is an IPv4 address and not IPv4+ address, meaning to a completely different destination address) - in case the destination address indeed received the IPv4+ packets - it will send back the udp requests to the source address at the exact same sizes
(with the reserved bit flag set to '1' and with the DF and MF flags set accordingly) - when the source address will receive them - the source address will know that the destination address is supporting IPv4+ , that ip packets with new IPv4+ formatting will
reach the destination and the source address will know what is the biggest size of the udp request that was received - and it will be the MTU for that specific connection between the source and the destination addresses (The IPv4+ handshake will be done again
if there is no response from the destination after the initial udp handshake was already completed successfully).</span></p>
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<span lang="PT" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black"> </span></p>
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<span lang="PT" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">The udp handshake between a source address and a destination address (that any of them or them both is an IPv4+ address) will use a specific udp port, an availalbe unassigned port between 0 to 1023, an operating
system networking stack (that was updated for IPv4+ with the operating system automatic updating system) will know exactly what this udp port is for - and will react accordingly, the upgraded operating system networking stack will also check that the destination
address (in the IPv4 or in the IPv4+ format) is set locally in the operating system, before sending the udp requests back to the source address (if not then the ip packet will be dropped by the upgraded operating system networking stack). Any operating system
that wasn't upgraded to support IPv4+ - will just drop that kind of udp requests.</span></p>
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<span lang="PT" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black"> </span></p>
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<span lang="PT" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">IPv4+ is fully backward compatible to IPv4 (and any router that was not upgraded yet to IPv4+ will not cause IPv4 traffic to break), it is also not adding any new fields to ip packets or using new fields,
IPv4+ will not cause any performance overload for any supported router.</span></p>
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<span lang="PT" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black"> </span></p>
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<span lang="PT" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">The reason that the MF and DF bits are being use for IPv4+ and not the ToS / IP-ID / Options in ip header are being used is because we cannot be 100% sure that the ToS / IP-ID / Options in the ip header
will not be changed or dropped by any rouer in the routing path that wasn't upgraded to IPv4+ (and we don't want to upgrade any router in the world because it is an impossible mission) - in the ip header ToS is being cleared by some routers - IP-ID can be
changed by NAT routers - Options field is dropped by many routers, we can trust that the DF and MF flags will not be modified in the routing path by routers that weren't upgraded to IPv4+.</span></p>
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<span lang="PT" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black"> </span></p>
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<span lang="PT" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">For the above solution not all the internet devices in the world needs to be patched/upgraded to support IPv4+ which is an impossible mission, end-users operating systems need to be upgraded (but it can
be done simply using their automatic updating system), BGP routers (and any router with multiple physical routing paths) will need to have its firmware upgraded to support IPv4+, any NAT router that will want to use an external IPv4+ address will need to have
its firmware upgraded (any NAT router that will use an external IPv4 address will not need to have its firmware upgraded, only the internet devices in the LAN of the NAT router will need to have a single operating system update in order for them to access
IPv4+ addresses in the internet), any home router (not NAT) or home modem will not need to have a firmware upgrade and IPv4+ functionality will be transparent to them.
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<span lang="PT" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black"> </span></p>
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<span lang="PT" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">The deployment of IPv4+ can be fairly easy and very fast, a round table of one person from each one of the 5 RIRs and from each one of the operating systems vendors and from each one of the router manufacture
vendors. Even if IPv4+ will be deployed over time, it will not cause the internet to break (devices that need to be upgraded to IPv4+ and didn't yet will work exactly as they are now with IPv4, they will just not yet support IPv4+).</span></p>
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<span lang="PT" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black"> </span></p>
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<span lang="PT" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">The above will resolve the "IPv4 Exhaustion" problem and will bring to each one of the 5 RIRs almost 900,000,000 new IPv4+ addresses that will be able to the provided to the LIRs worldwide, if you have any
question please let me know.</span></p>
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<span lang="PT" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black"> </span></p>
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<span lang="PT" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">Respectfully,</span></p>
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<span lang="PT" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">Elad</span></p>
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