<div style="font-family: Arial; text-align: left; font-size: 14px; color: #000000;">I did on 9th January 2020 (see below). It was a decision of the RIPE NCC Executive Board on 13th December 2019</div><div style="font-family: Arial; text-align: left; font-size: 14px; color: #000000;">to change the billing process for members to an annual scheme only. I never voted for that.</div><div style="font-family: Arial; text-align: left; font-size: 14px; color: #000000;"> </div><div style="text-align: left;"><div style="">> Dear colleagues,</div><div style=""> </div><div style="">> the removement of the ability of a quarterly or half-annualy billing scheme is in my opinion a bad move.</div><div style=""> </div><div style="">> Unfortunately I have no data prior to 1998, but at least since this year it was already possible for LIRs to</div><div style="">> choose from a quarterly, half-annually or annually charging scheme. It simplified and still simplifies the</div><div style="">> process for newcomers to become LIR. Altough the fees were higher than today we break here with a</div><div style="">> tradition that lasted more than 20 years (!).</div><div style=""> </div><div style="">> This change will decrease the amount of reminders, yes, but it also will decrease the amount of newcomers,</div><div style="">> small companies or even technical interested natural persons which plan to become LIR at RIPE. Furthermore</div><div style="">> the last subnets of the IPv4 pool, which is already quite scarce, won't go anymore to many newcomers, it will</div><div style="">> possibly go more to companies which already have enough means to buy IPv4 from the market. Those who</div><div style="">> have more financial opportunities can easily create multiple LIR accounts because they anyway pay annually</div><div style="">> as usual, so those who are affected are newcomers and small companies.</div><div style=""> </div><div style="">> I am strict against this change. It was an important simplification and I see no real reason for removing it after</div><div style="">> more than 20 years because in a few years when the pool is exhausted also the aforementioned heavy burden</div><div style="">> will be extenuated. Especially when it comes to IPv6 the next years it should be easily possible for newcomers</div><div style="">> to become LIR; because it is and should be a membership and not an investment.</div><div style=""> </div><div style="">> I also want to criticize that this was announced on a Friday, three days before Christmas, only about one month</div><div style="">> (now two months) the invoices for Q1/Y2019 will be sent and after expiration of the termination deadline</div><div style="">> of 15th December 2018.</div><div style=""> </div><div style="">> In my opinion, RIPE NCC is one of the fairest and liberal RIR - but that change isn't fair, it is more</div><div style="">> than astonishing.</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px;"> </div></div><div style="font-family: Arial; text-align: left; font-size: 14px; color: #000000;"> <hr style="border: 0; border-bottom: 1px solid #DADADA;">From: Stuart Willet <<a href="/email/new/1/stu%40safehosts.co.uk">stu@safehosts.co.uk</a>> Sent: Monday, 24. Feb 2020 – 22:35 CET +0100 To: Schnabeltier <<a href="/email/new/1/ripe-member-discuss%40cidr.eu">ripe-member-discuss@cidr.eu</a>> <a href="/email/new/1/members-discuss%40ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> Subject: RE: [members-discuss] Membership Fee Question </div><div> <style> body { font-family: "Arial"; font-size: 100% !important; margin: 0; line-height: 1.2rem; } </style> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"> <style></style> <div class="WordSection1"> If you do not endorse current policy, why did you not bring it up before?<o:p></o:p> RIPE are non-profit, all the members make all the decisions. WE run RIPE.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Best Regards,<o:p></o:p> Stuart Willet.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> From: members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] On Behalf Of Schnabeltier Sent: 24 February 2020 17:42 To: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Membership Fee Question<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Dear colleagues,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> since the annually fees are for the membership only and not for a very specific product or service, one needs to pay them from the first day on, that is a very common thing.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> However, for LIRs it was always possible to choose a quarterly payment scheme – for more than 20 years. This unfortunately changed recently which I do not endorse because it makes harder for newcomers to get and adopt IPv6.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Kind Regards,<o:p></o:p> Schnabeltier <o:p></o:p> <div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"> <hr size="2" width="100%" align="center"> </div> From: Ali Vargonen <<a href="/email/new/1/ali%40vargonen.com">ali@vargonen.com</a>> Sent: Monday, 24. Feb 2020 – 18:32 CET +0100 To: Azer Karyagdy <<a href="/email/new/1/azer%40karyagdy.com">azer@karyagdy.com</a>> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Membership Fee Question<o:p></o:p> <div> <pre style="white-space:pre-wrap">Dear Azer,<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre> <pre>Thanks for your nice and detailed answer. This is what i was looking for during asking my question. <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre> <pre>I don’t understand people act aggressive and harsh, this list is made to discuss and share ideas / questions. <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre> <pre>Wish you a nice day. <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre> <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre> <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre> <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre> <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre> <pre>> On 24 Feb 2020, at 20:26, Azer Karyagdy <<a href="mailto:azer@karyagdy.com">azer@karyagdy.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> Hello,<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> In 2019 wide discussion was initiated about project of current charging scheme. And according project voting result most members agreed to pay for whole year and waive quaterly payments. <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> Termination fee is compensation to RIPE because RIPE yearly budjet should not be changed during year. <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> Best Regards, <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> Azer<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> ----- Исходное сообщение -----<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> От: "Ali Vargonen" <<a href="mailto:ali@vargonen.com">ali@vargonen.com</a>><o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> Кому: "James Brooks" <<a href="mailto:jbrooks@inlandnet.com">jbrooks@inlandnet.com</a>><o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> Копия: <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> Отправлено: Понедельник, 24 Февраль 2020 г 20:03:12<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> Тема: Re: [members-discuss] Membership Fee Question<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> Hello, <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> Thanks for sharing your opinion James. <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> There are lots of organizations that don’t charge you 1 year, if you are not using their services for 1 year. And if you terminate earlier, you pay a penalty fee ( early termination fee). <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> Also second time i see ! , maybe in polite business communication , its new rule to use !!! which i am not used to. I will adapt. <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> Thanks for sharing your thoughts. <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> On 24 Feb 2020, at 19:38, James Brooks <<a href="mailto:jbrooks@inlandnet.com">jbrooks@inlandnet.com</a>> wrote: <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> It is a "Membership"! I am not aware of any associations or organizations where a membership is pro-rated if you do not stay a member for the duration. Any benefits that you receive as a member are perks for being a member. <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> Mahalo! <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> James K. Brooks<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> Treasurer/Controller<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> 509.649.2578<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> The information in this e-mail is privileged and confidential. It is intended only for the use of the recipient named above.<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> If you received this transmission in error, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please do not read it. Please reply to <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> sender and delete this e-mail. Thank you. <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> On 2/24/2020 7:39 AM, Jetten Raymond wrote: <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> Why would you want to be a member for 10 days ? <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> Hanki Outlook for Android <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> From: members-discuss <<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>> on behalf of Ali Vargonen <<a href="mailto:ali@vargonen.com">ali@vargonen.com</a>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 5:15:07 PM <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> To: ' <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> ' <<a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> Subject: [members-discuss] Membership Fee Question <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> Hello, <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> I would like to ask you about the membership fee costs of RIPE, today I learned something new. <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> Maybe it was something common and I was not aware of it. <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> As a member, you need to pay the full amount for the annual year 2020, if you just use the services for 10 days and terminate your membership with Ripe, so if you use services for 10 or 365 days you will be charged the same amount. <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> I asked if it is possible to make it at least Q based, but this is not an option, 6 months based, not an option. <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> You need to pay full year and it is not based on the number of days or (Q based) you are a member of RIPE in the year. <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> Interesting information for me, I do not think its fair, but everybody could think differently. I would like to get your opinions about it. <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> Is it fair to charge a member, who will not be a member in Q2 + Q3 + Q4 for the annual year? <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> Kind Regards, <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> A.V. <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> _______________________________________________ <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> members-discuss mailing list <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/">https://mailman.ripe.net/</a> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> Unsubscribe: <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/raymond.jetten%40elisa.fi">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/raymond.jetten%40elisa.fi</a> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> members-discuss mailing list <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> <a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/">https://mailman.ripe.net/</a> Unsubscribe: <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/jbrooks%40inlandnet.com">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/jbrooks%40inlandnet.com</a> _______________________________________________ <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> members-discuss mailing list <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/">https://mailman.ripe.net/</a> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> Unsubscribe: <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ali%40vargonen.com">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ali%40vargonen.com</a> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> members-discuss mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/">https://mailman.ripe.net/</a><o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> Unsubscribe: <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/azer%40karyagdy.com">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/azer%40karyagdy.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> members-discuss mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> <a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/">https://mailman.ripe.net/</a><o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>> Unsubscribe: <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ali%40vargonen.com">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ali%40vargonen.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>members-discuss mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre> <pre><a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/">https://mailman.ripe.net/</a><o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>Unsubscribe: <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ripe-member-discuss%40cidr.eu">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ripe-member-discuss%40cidr.eu</a><o:p></o:p></pre> </div> </div> </div>