<html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"> </head> <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> this sound a very nice approach that could clearly put all on the same plane: you can spend as you need ipv4 or you can return them if you don't use it... Thomas <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Il 17/01/19 14:30, ivaylo ha scritto: </div> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:alpine.DEB.2.20.1901171514210.18108@mail.bglans.net"> Hello, Jonas Thank you for the numbers ! In my previous mail told, that these are examples only and pointed exact to this so now it is clear if the charging scheme is on net basis: 26000000 (targeting budget) / 3108576 = 8.37 EUROs for /24 per year ! Even if we put targeting budget x 2 it is very resonable fee for one /24 net. Also permanent LIR to LIR resources transfers must be disabled. Then what we will have: (again example numbers) registration fee: 2000 EURO Anual membership fee: 350 EURO (receive one /24 for free) For every next /24 dedicated� + 10 EURO All LIR to LIR permanent transfers - disabled (If you need resources ask RIPE, if you dont need return to RIPE) Off course bigger operators that need large resources will pay more than now, but it is absolutely normal, they have larger bussiness with a lot more revenue, It is not fair to put on same basis small telecom with 2k-3k clients and operator with 20m - 30m clients. Ivaylo Josifov Varteh LTD Varna Bulgaria On Thu, 17 Jan 2019, Jonas Frey wrote: <blockquote type="cite">Hello, sorry but that type of billing is totally nonsense. You obvisously never calculated this with real data. Let me do it for you: According to <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/stats/delegated-ripencc-extended-latest">ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/stats/delegated-ripencc-extended-latest</a> RIPE currently assigned 817101048 IP addresses for real-use (excluding reserved and free etc.). That equals to roughly�3191800 /24's. There are currently 20806 LIR's ( <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://labs.ripe.net/statistics/number-of-lirs">https://labs.ripe.net/statistics/number-of-lirs</a>), if each one is getting a /22 free, that means we have to deduct 83224 /24's from above figure. That makes it�3108576 /24's which should be billed (according to you). 3108576*350 =�1.088.001.600,00 Euros. Yes, thats 1 billion euros. RIPE's budget for 2018 was (projected) to be 26 million euros: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-693">https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-693</a> As you can see this is utterly nonsense. As you might know, any surplus the RIPE NCC generates (at the end of the fiscal year) will be re- distributed to the members as RIPE is a association and not a company in regular terms. Or are you trying to actually get paid from RIPE for using little count of IPv4 addresses? Anything that is money related will *not* help to get IPv4 back or solve this with the current form of membership and RIPE. There are plenty of other ways (some of which have been proposed here) that are a much better idea (migrating to IPv6 being the ultimate one). -J Am Mittwoch, den 16.01.2019, 17:22 +0200 schrieb ivaylo: <blockquote type="cite">Hello, I 100% agree with you ! As many resources one LIR consumes as bigger membership fee should be. Even to better optimize resources usage, the fee can be calculated on /24� basis. example: /17 = 128 x /24 fee = (128-4)*350 = 43 400 euro/year fee P.S. in your example should be: (32-1)*1400 = 39 200 euro. Ivaylo Josifov Varteh LTD Varna Bulgaria On Wed, 16 Jan 2019, TrustHost wrote: <blockquote type="cite"> Hi. � I think it would be great if the payment depends on the quantity the resources for one account. It would help to return unused IPv4 in free pool for new business. The companies, who really use big networks won't notice such changes. But who received the resources before 2012 and has unused /19 and maybe more will think if they really need such big blocks. � For example we can implement the next charging scheme. If one account has more than /20 (not equivalent 4x/22 or the blocks were allocated before 2012) the next /22 ownership will cost some price (e.g. 1400 euro). � For example: There is /17 IPv4 block for one LIR account. /17 = 32x/22. The total price for this account is (32-4)*1400 = 39 200 euro. � I think the members must have equal rights, regardless of the year of the membership started. � ------------------ Kind regards, Boris Loginov � TrustHost LLC </blockquote> _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mailman.ripe.net/">https://mailman.ripe.net/</a> Unsubscribe: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/r">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/r</a> ipe%40probe-networks.de </blockquote> </blockquote> <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset> <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mailman.ripe.net/">https://mailman.ripe.net/</a> Unsubscribe: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/thomas%40niceblue.it">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/thomas%40niceblue.it</a> </pre> </blockquote> <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- -- Thomas Gallo @ Nice Blue s.r.l. 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