<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">The crux of your argument is fundamentally about extending the useful life of IPv4 - something that has been attempted for 20+ years, the fact that we have lasted so long is a miracle in itself…<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Really we should be asking why such poor uptake of IPv6 and how can we solve that fundamental issue?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Dual-Stack Lite is probably one of the better transition mechanisms out there at this point from an IPv6 accessing legacy IPv4 sites perspective - but these only really help the customer side rather than DC side</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It seems Facebook uses SIIT-DC to translate IPv4 accesses to IPv6 for transit accross their internal network (<a href="https://superuser.com/questions/1259994/can-i-reach-my-ipv6-website-via-ipv4" class="">https://superuser.com/questions/1259994/can-i-reach-my-ipv6-website-via-ipv4</a>) which might work depending on the use case</div><br class=""><div class=""> </div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 4 Dec 2018, at 15:53, Bunea TELECOM <<a href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu" class="">suport@bunea.eu</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Can you please show me a successful implementation of NAT in a medium sized datacenter? I am quite curious. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Also, how about companies that have a dormant /8 which they don’t even announce ? I think you should be angry over them, for having millions of IPv4 unused, and not over us, who have a few thousands. </div><div class="">I think they are the ones you refer to as stealing the future of other companies, right ? </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""> <div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">—</div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><div style="line-height: normal;" class=""><div apple-content-edited="true" class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div apple-content-edited="true" class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div style="line-height: normal;" class=""><div apple-content-edited="true" class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div apple-content-edited="true" class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div style="line-height: normal;" class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span class=""><span id="cid:D3EC510C-8DD4-413A-919B-016F7A92B2B5"><email-signature.jpg></span></span><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; line-height: normal;" class=""><span class="txt sig-hide signature_name-target" data-mce-style="font-weight: bold; color: #212121; display: inline;" style="display: inline;"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><b class="">Petru Bunea</b></span> <span class="sep title-sep" data-mce-style="display: inline;" style="display: inline;">/</span> <span class="txt sig-hide signature_jobtitle-target" data-mce-style="color: #212121; display: inline;" style="display: inline;">CEO</span> <span class="break email-sep" data-mce-style="display: inline;" style="display: inline;"><br class=""></span><a class="email signature_email-target sig-hide link" href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu" data-mce-href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu" data-mce-style="color: #477ccc; text-decoration: none; display: inline;" style="color: rgb(71, 124, 204); text-decoration: none; display: inline;">suport@bunea.eu</a><span class="sep signature_email-sep" data-mce-style="display: inline;" style="display: inline;"> / </span><span class="txt signature_mobilephone-target sig-hide" data-mce-style="color: #212121; display: inline;" style="display: inline;"><a href="tel:+40752481282" data-mce-href="tel:+40752481282" class="">+40752481282</a></span></div><p data-mce-style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10px; line-height: 12px; margin-bottom: 10px;" class="" style="font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; widows: 1; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10px; line-height: 12px; margin-bottom: 10px;"><span class="txt signature_companyname-target sig-hide" data-mce-style="font-weight: bold; color: #212121; display: inline;" style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(33, 33, 33); display: inline;">Bunea TELECOM</span> / DATACENTER / APP DEVELOPMENT<span class="break company-sep" data-mce-style="display: inline;" style="display: inline;"><br class=""></span><span class="txt signature_officephone-target sig-hide" data-mce-style="color: #212121;" style="color: rgb(33, 33, 33);"></span><span class="txt signature_fax-target sig-hide" data-mce-style="color: #212121;" style="color: rgb(33, 33, 33);"></span><span class="break address-sep"></span><span class="txt signature_address-target sig-hide" data-mce-style="color: #212121;" style="color: rgb(33, 33, 33);"></span><span class="break address2-sep"></span><span class="txt signature_address2-target sig-hide" data-mce-style="color: #212121;" style="color: rgb(33, 33, 33);"></span><span class="break website-sep"></span><a class="link signature_website-target sig-hide" href="http://www.bunea.eu/" data-mce-href="http://www.bunea.eu" data-mce-style="color: #477ccc; text-decoration: none; display: inline;" style="color: rgb(71, 124, 204); text-decoration: none; display: inline;">http://www.bunea.eu</a> / <a href="tel:+40745495495" data-mce-href="tel:+40745495495" class="">+40745495495</a></p> </span></div> <div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 4 Dec 2018, at 15:50, Lutz Donnerhacke <<a href="mailto:L.Donnerhacke@iks-service.de" class="">L.Donnerhacke@iks-service.de</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">You can’t avoid NAT, because there are not enough IPv4’s for everybody.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">You can’t change this, because the IPv4 pool is limited by technical standards.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">So you either implement NAT or move to IPv6. The best advice is to do both.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Faking LIRs for RIPE in order to grab legacy IP space is stealing the future of other companies.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width: 1.5pt; border-left-color: blue; padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Von:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Bunea TELECOM <<a href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">suport@bunea.eu</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><b class="">Gesendet:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Dienstag, 4. Dezember 2018 14:16<br class=""><b class="">An:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Lutz Donnerhacke <<a href="mailto:L.Donnerhacke@iks-service.de" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">L.Donnerhacke@iks-service.de</a>><br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br class=""><b class="">Betreff:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [members-discuss] LIR???s billing issues with RIPE NCC, need support<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">Hello Lutz,<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">Perhaps you should also offer some advice for us, we run a datacenter and we are very curious how we can evolve without having to open up multiple LIR accounts? <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">I don’t think NAT is a solution, so I am waiting for your answer.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">Thanks<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">—<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""><span id="cid:image001.jpg@01D48BE0.A110B970" class=""><image001.jpg></span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><span class="txt"><b class="">Petru Bunea</b></span> <span class="sep">/</span> <span class="txt">CEO</span> <br class=""><a href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(71, 124, 204); text-decoration: none;" class="">suport@bunea.eu</span></a><span class="sep"> / </span><span class="txt"><a href="tel:+40752481282" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">+40752481282</a></span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; line-height: 9pt; text-align: start; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px;"><span class="txt"><b class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(33, 33, 33);" class="">Bunea TELECOM</span></b></span><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""> / DATACENTER / APP DEVELOPMENT<br class=""><a href="http://www.bunea.eu/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(71, 124, 204); text-decoration: none;" class="">http://www.bunea.eu</span></a> / <a href="tel:+40745495495" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">+40745495495</a><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">On 4 Dec 2018, at 14:50, Lutz Donnerhacke <<a href="mailto:L.Donnerhacke@iks-service.de" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">L.Donnerhacke@iks-service.de</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">Because I need more addresses to offer to my customers. Purchasing<br class="">addresses from open market is risky. Thats why I open new LIRs.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><br class="">You are doing it wrong.<br class=""><br class="">Please learn how to operate an ISP in modern times.<br class="">Two hints:<br class="">-<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://lutz.donnerhacke.de/eng/content/search?SearchText=NAT" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://lutz.donnerhacke.de/eng/content/search?SearchText=NAT</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>(use<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://deepl.com/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">deepl.com</a>)<br class="">-<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6540" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6540</a><br class=""><br class="">But please stop wasting tight resources by incompetence.<br class="">And please stop stealing resources from others by tricking RIPE policies.<br class=""><br class="">Please note, that your message is enough to reclaim the illegal obtained resources back by RIPE NCC. That's one of the activities we pay them for.<br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">members-discuss mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br class=""><a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://mailman.ripe.net/</a><br class="">Unsubscribe:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/suport%40bunea.eu" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/suport%40bunea.eu</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">members-discuss mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" class="">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br class="">https://mailman.ripe.net/<br class="">Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/anthony.somerset%40cloudunboxed.net<br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>