<div dir="ltr">What you said about Iran is not correct, but I can understand why you are making that false claim. :)<div><br></div><div>I'm supporting digital version and also the option to request the paper SSA.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div><br></div><div>Arash Naderpour</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 1:20 AM William <<a href="mailto:william@william.si">william@william.si</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u><div><div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:16px;direction:ltr"><div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:16px"></div>I am absolutely against NOT sending by postal mail to sign but FOR allowing to return by mail/digital.<div><br></div><div><div>There are already LIRs with fake eg. Belize and African company documents, if we now send nothing to nowhere anymore this will just get worse.<br></div><div><br></div><div>This address sent to is also the only legal trace RIPE has - paid anonymous, with fake data and no address needed this is heaven for cybercrime - i'd love it, preventing all this BS would make me so much more money.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Also, RIPE is not just EU - a digital signature is not worth shit in like Iran.</div><div>DocuSign and similar are NOT accepted services in such countries, thus the signature is plainly invalid.<br><br>--</div><div>William Weber<br><div></div><br><br><div>On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 13:21, Elvis Daniel Velea <<a href="mailto:elvis@v4escrow.net" target="_blank">elvis@v4escrow.net</a>> wrote:</div><blockquote><div><div> <div><div dir="auto">Erik,</div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">you have my support for the request below.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">@all - sorry for the top post</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">/elvis</div><div><br><div><div dir="ltr">On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 01:37 Erik Bais <<a href="mailto:ebais@a2b-internet.com" rel="external" target="_blank">ebais@a2b-internet.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div lang="EN-IE" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"> <div> <a name="m_-1901250370345021597_m_7391199416313222985__MailOriginalBody"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#58595b">Dear members, </span><u></u><u></u></a><br><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#58595b">I like to open a discussion to have the SSA updated into this century .. to allow for acceptance of the documents to be send in via the RIPE NCC Portal ( with SSO ) or send in by email after being signed, or the RIPE NCC to use a method of digital signature like the usage of DocuSign, Echosign or something similar. </span><u></u><u></u></span><br><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#58595b">The acceptance of a digital signature has been allowed by EU law since December 1999, ( EU Directive 99/93/EG - </span></span><span></span><a href="http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX:31999L0093" rel="external" target="_blank"><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica"></span></span></a><a href="http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX:31999L0093" rel="external" target="_blank">http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX:31999L0093</a><span></span><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica"> <span style="color:#58595b"> ) and implemented in Dutch law since 2003 (</span></span></span><a href="http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0015046/2003-05-21" rel="external" target="_blank"><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica"></span></span></a><a href="http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0015046/2003-05-21" rel="external" target="_blank">http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0015046/2003-05-21</a><span></span><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#58595b"> ) </span><u></u><u></u></span><br><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#58595b">We are currently in 2018 and the SSA still refers to a device that most of our children never heard of or have seen ..... named a fax machine… </span><u></u><u></u></span><br><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#58595b"><snip></span><u></u><u></u></span><br><span></span><a href="https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-673" rel="external" target="_blank"><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica"></span></span></a><a href="https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-673" rel="external" target="_blank">https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-673</a><span></span><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#58595b"> </span><u></u><u></u></span><br><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#58595b">Article 2 – General</span><u></u><u></u></span><br><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#333333">2.1 The RIPE NCC Standard Service Agreement shall come into effect by means of an offer and an acceptance.</span><u></u><u></u></span><br><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#333333">2.2 To enter into the RIPE NCC Standard Service Agreement, the following documents have to be sent to the RIPE NCC by post or fax:</span><u></u><u></u></span><br><span><u></u><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#333333">One copy of the RIPE NCC Standard Service Agreement containing the handwritten signature of an authorised representative of the Member</span><u></u><u></u></span><br><span><u></u><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#333333">A recent extract from the Commercial Trade Register or equivalent document proving the registration of the Member with the national authorities.</span><u></u><u></u></span><br><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#333333">Upon receipt of these documents by the RIPE NCC, the RIPE NCC Standard Service Agreement is considered to be concluded. The RIPE NCC shall not commence the provision of the RIPE NCC services until these documents have been received. Conclusion of the RIPE NCC Standard Service Agreement establishes a RIPE NCC membership.</span><u></u><u></u></span><br><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#333333"></snip> </span><u></u><u></u></span><br><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#58595b">While most of the fax implementations these days, including the one at the RIPE NCC office, is a device that stores an image copy of a document on a server. Not many companies have a paper print fax anymore these days..</span><u></u><u></u></span><br><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#58595b">That document from those fax or multi-copier devices can then be printed by the local printer or stored digitally in a database attached to a LIR application as an attachment. Similar as if someone would scan the signed SSA and email the document .. </span><u></u><u></u></span><br><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#58595b">However the current wording in the SSA doesn’t allow for that type of scenario .. and it should be updated to a more neutral wording to allow a better usage of technology. </span><u></u><u></u></span><br><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#58595b">If we can sign for a mortgage application in The Netherlands using a digital signature, why can’t we apply for a new LIR with a digital signature. </span><u></u><u></u></span><br><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#58595b">This will also allow for a much smoother new members to complete their application .. </span><u></u><u></u></span><br><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#58595b">Using digital signatures will reduce the fees to DHL, speed up the complete on-boarding process and reduce the handling fees at the RIPE office. </span><u></u><u></u></span><br><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#58595b"><sarcasm> </span><u></u><u></u></span><br><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#58595b">For those that like to keep doing things, like we always did .. The city of Amsterdam is also in the process to dis-allow the usage of horse and carriage in the city. </span><u></u><u></u></span><br><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#58595b">So if someone would like to take a ride by horse carriage to the postal office and use their fax machine there .. that is something that you cannot do for a long time anymore as well … </span></span><a href="https://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/na-bierfiets-is-het-ook-einde-verhaal-voor-paardenkoets-in-centrum-amsterdam~a4580876/" rel="external" target="_blank"><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica"></span></span></a><a href="https://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/na-bierfiets-is-het-ook-einde-verhaal-voor-paardenkoets-in-centrum-amsterdam~a4580876/" rel="external" target="_blank">https://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/na-bierfiets-is-het-ook-einde-verhaal-voor-paardenkoets-in-centrum-amsterdam~a4580876/</a><span></span><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#58595b"> </span><u></u><u></u></span><br><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#58595b"></sarcasm> </span><u></u><u></u></span><br><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#58595b">And for countries that don’t allow the usage of digital signatures or members that don’t want to use the new digital signature system, there is always the option to request the paper SSA to be send via DHL and have it signed and returned. Similar as we are currently also allowing those options for invoices … </span><u></u><u></u></span><br><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#58595b"> </span><u></u><u></u></span><br><span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt">Kind regards,</span><u></u><u></u></span><br><span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt">Erik Bais </span><u></u><u></u></span><br></div> </div> _______________________________________________<br> members-discuss mailing list<br><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" rel="external" target="_blank">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br><a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/" rel="external" target="_blank">https://mailman.ripe.net/</a><br> Unsubscribe: <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/elvis%40v4escrow.net" rel="external" target="_blank">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/elvis%40v4escrow.net</a><br></blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">Elvis Daniel Velea<br>V4Escrow LLC<br>Chief Executive Officer<br>E-mail: <a href="mailto:elvis@v4escrow.net" rel="external" target="_blank">elvis@v4escrow.net</a><br>Mobile: +1 (702) 970 0921<br><br>Excuse the briefness of this mail, it was sent from a mobile device.</div></div> </div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div> _______________________________________________<br> members-discuss mailing list<br> <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br> <a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.ripe.net/</a><br> Unsubscribe: <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/arash.naderpour%40gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/arash.naderpour%40gmail.com</a><br> </blockquote></div>