<html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=windows-1250"> <style type="text/css" style="display:none;"></style> </head> <body dir="ltr"> <div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" style="font-size:12pt;color:#000000;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;" dir="ltr"> <p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">guys can you take me off this email chain?</p> <p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br> </p> <p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">thanks v much</p> <p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br> </p> <p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br> </p> </div> <hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex="-1"> <div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of David Benwell <dave@it-communicationsltd.co.uk><br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 14, 2018 12:44:26 PM<br> <b>To:</b> William; Bunea TELECOM<br> <b>Cc:</b> members-discuss@ripe.net<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security</font> <div> </div> </div> <meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> <meta name="x_Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"> <style>  </style> <div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple"> <div class="x_WordSection1"> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">William, Would you happen to be such holder of address apace?</span></p> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D"> </span></p> <div> <div style="border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>William<br> <b>Sent:</b> 14 May 2018 11:47<br> <b>To:</b> Bunea TELECOM <suport@bunea.eu><br> <b>Cc:</b> members-discuss@ripe.net<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security</span></p> </div> </div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p> <div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">These are legacy. They are not RIR business.</span></p> <div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span></p> </div> <div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">No RIR can reclaim them (and reclaim is plainly wrong, they never owned them, this is pre-RIR space), they are private property.</span></p> </div> <div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span></p> </div> <div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Taking them is theft and nothing else, no matter how you phrase it.</span></p> </div> <div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">--</span></p> </div> <div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">William Weber</span></p> </div> <div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Consulting, Security & Management - Tel-Aviv, Israel / Rijeka, Croatia</span></p> </div> <div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span></p> </div> <div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><a href="https://ip6.im/" target="_blank">https://ip6.im</a> - No RIPE LIR? Still read this email for some reason? Grab a /40 *free* IPv6 space for BGP usage. Or just get it anyway, can't hurt to have.</span></p> </div> <div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span></p> </div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span></p> <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span></p> <div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 12:27, Bunea TELECOM <<a href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu">suport@bunea.eu</a>> wrote:</span></p> </div> <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt; margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <div> <div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">I agree,</span></p> <div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span></p> </div> <div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">There are tens of /8’s available, some of them even unannounced. For example there are lots of entities which if they would gave up (even partially) of their unused blocks, it would push the IPv4 complete exaustion to 2020+. </span></p> </div> <div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span></p> </div> <div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Thanks,</span></p> </div> <div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Petru</span></p> <div> <div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif; color:black">—</span></p> </div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif; color:black"><br> <img border="0" width="63" height="73" id="x__x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D3EB81.4A1958C0"></span></p> <div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif; color:black"><br> <br> <br> <br> <b>Petru Bunea</b> / CEO <br> <a href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu" target="_blank"><span style="color:#477CCC; text-decoration:none">suport@bunea.eu</span></a> / <a href="tel:+40752481282" target="_blank">+40752481282</a></span></p> </div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif; color:#212121">Bunea TELECOM</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif; color:black"> / DATACENTER / APP DEVELOPMENT<br> <a href="http://www.bunea.eu/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#477CCC; text-decoration:none">http://www.bunea.eu</span></a> / <a href="tel:+40745495495" target="_blank">+40745495495</a><br> <br> </span><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"></span></p> </div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span></p> <div> <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt; margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">On 14 May 2018, at 11:20, Janarthanan Sundaram <<a href="mailto:j.sundaram@123telcom.nl" target="_blank">j.sundaram@123telcom.nl</a>> wrote:</span></p> </div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span></p> <div> <div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">I think we should prioritize on on point two: what to do with unused blocks.</span></p> </div> <div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D"> </span></p> </div> <div> <div style="border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> <div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Van:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> members-discuss <<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>> <b>Namens </b>Bruno Carvalho<br> <b>Verzonden:</b> maandag 14 mei 2018 10:11<br> <b>Aan:</b> <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br> <b>Onderwerp:</b> Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security</span></p> </div> </div> </div> <div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p> </div> <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">This discussion is quite interesting. But i think it should be discussed between all RiRs. Not only for RIPE.<br> When we look at big companies, like Microsoft, and do a simple scan of their assigned IP ranges... we found some /14 and several /16 unassigned/unused ranges.</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br> <br> <br> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Personnally, i think we should focus on 2 main things:</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br> <br> <br> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">- Improve IPv6 implementation all over the territory (i know this is painfull for many LIRs because it implies additional work and purchase of new equipments. But let's face it. We are in 2018. If an equipment doesn't support IPv6, it's very obsolete and not performant).</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br> <br> <br> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">- Check with the other RiRs what would be the best to do with those big unused ranges that are owned by companies that don't use them.</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br> <br> <br> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Regards</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br> <br> </span></p> <div> <div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">---</span></p> </div> <table class="x_MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="4" cellpadding="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td width="156" style="width:111.0pt; padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> <div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="148" height="43" id="x__x0000_i1026" alt="XRV" src="https://www.xrv.pt/templates/xrv/html/img/xrv.png"></p> </div> </td> <td width="384" style="width:285.0pt; padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Bruno Carvalho (CEO <a href="http://xrv.pt" target="_blank"> xrv.pt</a>) | +351 300 404 316<br> <span style="font-family:Webdings; color:#009900">P</span> <span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif; color:#009900">Please consider the environment before printing this email</span><br> <br> </p> </td> <td width="70" style="width:48.0pt; padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> <p class="x_MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><a href="https://www.xrv.pt/" target="_blank" title="XRV"><span style="color:purple; text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="53" height="32" id="x__x0000_i1027" alt="Visit our website" src="https://www.xrv.pt/templates/xrv/html/img/www.png"></span></a><br> <a href="https://www.facebook.com/xervers/" target="_blank" title="Visit us on Facebook"><span style="color:purple; text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="32" height="32" id="x__x0000_i1028" alt="Facebook" src="https://www.xrv.pt/templates/xrv/html/img/facebook.png"></span></a><a href="https://twitter.com/xervers" target="_blank" title="Visit us on Twitter"><span style="color:purple; text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="32" height="32" id="x__x0000_i1029" alt="Twitter" src="https://www.xrv.pt/templates/xrv/html/img/twitter.png"></span></a></p> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </div> <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br> <br> <br> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">On 2018-05-14 09:51, Hans Govenius wrote:</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br> <br> </span></p> <blockquote style="border:none; border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt; padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 5.0pt; margin-left:0cm; margin-top:5.0pt; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <div> <div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"">Hello<br> <br> Not needed IP = The addressese company is ready to sell for a small profit </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Segoe UI Symbol",sans-serif">😊</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New""> ? This is probably good indication that its not used anymore. One option is to automatically block all and any IP transaction which does not involve transaction of the whole company/business. It is a question that can IP be a commodity. Now its a commodity that is getting more rare by the year. Maybe IP should be considered an jointly owned part of infrastructure which is deployed by need basis. (Socialistic way)<br> <br> Other option is to start to take money per IP. This would instantly mean that everyone would look up to own ip spaces. Let say it would cost 1 euro / year for a IP it would only be approx 1000 euros for the smallest allocation. Someone with 10 million IP addressese are likely to happily pay for it fi they are in use, but if they are not i would think they would be handed back. (Capitalistic way)<br> <br> One option is also to go with the current system because internet is working so its not horribly wrong at the moment either. <br> <br> One interesting this is tho that old LIR:s are likely to wanting to keep these things unchanged. New LIR:s are more likely to want changes as this is heavily favoring old LIR:s. And every year a proportionally larger part will be the ones with few IP:s and same vote than the one with alot of IP:s and also only 1 vote. <br> <br> Br. Hans <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> -----Alkuperäinen viesti-----<br> Lähettäjä: members-discuss <<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</span></a>> Puolesta REG ID: pl.skonet<br> Lähetetty: maanantai 14. toukokuuta 2018 10.34<br> Vastaanottaja: <a href="mailto:pdonner@znak.fi" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">pdonner@znak.fi</span></a>; <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">members-discuss@ripe.net</span></a><br> Aihe: Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security<br> <br> W dniu 14.05.2018 o 09:25, Philip Donner pisze: </span></p> </div> <blockquote style="border:none; border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt; padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 5.0pt; margin-left:0cm; margin-top:5.0pt; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New""><br> I would like to amplify Dave's good proposal, by suggesting that unused addresses should be handed back to RIPE, so that they can be added to a pool of addresses reserved for LIRs who needs them for non-profit promotion of IP networks.</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br> <br> </span></p> </blockquote> <div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New""><br> Ok, but there is never ending story to resolve: how to define 'unused addresses'. Because not announced in BGP definitely != not used.<br> <br> -- <br> <br> Tomasz Œl¹ski<br> pl.skonet<br> <br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> members-discuss mailing list<br> <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">members-discuss@ripe.net</span></a><br> <a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">https://mailman.ripe.net/</span></a><br> Unsubscribe: <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/hans.govenius%40devnet.fi" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/hans.govenius%40devnet.fi</span></a><br> _______________________________________________<br> members-discuss mailing list<br> <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">members-discuss@ripe.net</span></a><br> <a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">https://mailman.ripe.net/</span></a><br> Unsubscribe: <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/bruno.carvalho%40xrv.pt" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/bruno.carvalho%40xrv.pt</span></a></span></p> </div> </div> </blockquote> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">_______________________________________________<br> members-discuss mailing list<br> <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br> <a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/" target="_blank">https://mailman.ripe.net/</a><br> Unsubscribe: <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/suport%40bunea.eu" target="_blank"> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/suport%40bunea.eu</a></span><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"></span></p> </div> </blockquote> </div> <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span></p> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html>