<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style></style></head><body lang=ES link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:1.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#212121'><br></span><span lang=EN style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"inherit",serif;color:#212121'>Who has subscribed to this email?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"inherit",serif;color:#212121'>Always the same ... Please remove.</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"inherit",serif;color:#212121'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b>De:</b> members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> <b>En nombre de </b>Richard Quick<br><b>Enviado el:</b> lunes, 14 de mayo de 2018 13:58<br><b>Para:</b> Thomas A. Bibb <hello@thomasbibb.co.uk><br><b>CC:</b> members-discuss@ripe.net<br><b>Asunto:</b> Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME FROM THIS DISCUSSION<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thank you<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Shree Devanagari 714",serif;color:black'>Richard Quick<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Shree Devanagari 714",serif;color:black'>Space Data Centres Limited<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI Symbol",sans-serif;color:black'>✆</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Shree Devanagari 714",serif;color:black'> - 0115 975 8285<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Shree Devanagari 714",serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 14 May 2018, at 12:52, Thomas A. Bibb <<a href="mailto:hello@thomasbibb.co.uk">hello@thomasbibb.co.uk</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I agree - this is partly to blame for why we’re in the situation we’re in. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Tom<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 14 May 2018, at 12:47, Adrian Bolster <<a href="mailto:Adrian.Bolster@purebroadband.net">Adrian.Bolster@purebroadband.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>I wholeheartedly agree, it’s not in the best interests of the internet community as a whole to continue to allow huge amounts of address space to remain unused to their full potential. <br style='caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps: normal;text-align:start;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px'><br></span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br>On 14 May 2018, at 12:40, David Benwell <<a href="mailto:dave@it-communicationsltd.co.uk"><span style='color:purple'>dave@it-communicationsltd.co.uk</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;font-variant-caps: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>No its about preventing the waste of IP Addresses. Why allow a LLR to retain address space that they may never have used.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span lang=EN-US> </span></span><span lang=EN-US>members-discuss [<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net"><span style='color:purple'>mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</span></a>]<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>William<br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>14 May 2018 12:32<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Bunea TELECOM <<a href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu"><span style='color:purple'>suport@bunea.eu</span></a>><br><b>Cc:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net"><span style='color:purple'>members-discuss@ripe.net</span></a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>But this does not CHANGE IT IS THEFT, please have a look at your history (or here in Croatia) - you want to do the same, steal from some parts of the society ('the rich') to 'benefit' the whole which ends horribly wrong.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>This discussion is almost as absurd as the Russian suggestion to move RIPE to Moscow.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>--</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>William Weber</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>Consulting, Security & Management - Tel-Aviv, Israel / Rijeka, Croatia</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><a href="https://ip6.im/"><span style='color:purple'>https://ip6.im</span></a><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>- No RIPE LIR? Still read this email for some reason? Grab a /40 *free* IPv6 space for BGP usage. Or just get it anyway, can't hurt to have.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 13:16, Bunea TELECOM <<a href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu"><span style='color:purple'>suport@bunea.eu</span></a>> wrote:</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>Everybody that says it’s theft, please consider the fact that those ‘guys’ got their hands on /8 blocks tens of years ago, and probably did not pay a dime for them.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>In the light of events, one /8, respecting the 1024 IPv4 policy that RIPE has, would belong to over 16.000 LIR accounts!</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>And I must say, 16.000 companies would create a lot of business compared to one company that holds a /8 :)</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>Thanks</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>—</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br><image001.jpg></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br><br><br><br><b>Petru Bunea</b> / CEO <br><a href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu" target="_blank"><span style='color:#477CCC;text-decoration:none'>suport@bunea.eu</span></a> / <a href="tel:+40752481282" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>+40752481282</span></a></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#212121'>Bunea TELECOM</span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> / DATACENTER / APP DEVELOPMENT<br><a href="http://www.bunea.eu/" target="_blank"><span style='color:#477CCC;text-decoration:none'>http://www.bunea.eu</span></a> / <a href="tel:+40745495495" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>+40745495495</span></a><br><br><br></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>On 14 May 2018, at 14:16, Alex Lobachov <<a href="mailto:alxl@telenet.lv" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>alxl@telenet.lv</span></a>> wrote:</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Bruno has it’s point.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Legacy parts of the space should be reclaimed, but only ICANN has the power to do so.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>I don’t like to call it a thief, I’d rather say as all IP space is rented (owning a number isn’t bright), all that rented space, wherever it is legacy or current should be re-audited to justify the reason of use.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>--<br>Alex Lobachov<br>Telenet, sia<br>Network Systems Engineer<br>LinkedIn:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="https://lv.linkedin.com/in/allxll" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>https://lv.linkedin.com/in/allxll</span></a><br>E-mail:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:alxl@telenet.lv" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>alxl@telenet.lv</span></a><br>Skype: alxl__<br>Direct office: +371 67886224<br>Office: +371 67711111</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><a href="mailto:bruno.carvalho@xrv.pt" target="_blank" title="bruno.carvalho@xrv.pt"><span style='color:purple'>Bruno Carvalho</span></a></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>Sent:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>Monday, May 14, 2018 2:04 PM</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>To:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank" title="members-discuss@ripe.net"><span style='color:purple'>members-discuss@ripe.net</span></a></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>Subject:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>William,</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Legacy or not, at one point a regulation was introduced. And everyone should be regulated (pre-RIR or not).</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Is the same has if you own a car from back the traffic laws (1800 years?). If you drive it now, you have to comply with all the laws that regulate the sector.<br>Why the legacy address space owners shouldn't have to comply with the actual regulations?</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>If we look deep on the spaces between 0.0.0.0 and 255.255.255.255 (that are not local or bogons), i bet that most than 50% are legacy and not used.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>---</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0><tr><td width=148 style='width:111.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><img border=0 width=148 height=43 style='width:1.5416in;height:.4479in' id="_x0000_i1025" src="https://www.xrv.pt/templates/xrv/html/img/xrv.png" alt=XRV><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></td><td width=380 style='width:285.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Bruno Carvalho (CEO<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="http://xrv.pt/" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>xrv.pt</span></a>) | +351 300 404 316<br></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:#009900'>P</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#009900'>Please consider the environment before printing this email</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></td><td width=64 style='width:48.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><a href="https://www.xrv.pt/" target="_blank" title=XRV><span style='color:purple;text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=53 height=32 style='width:.552in;height:.3333in' id="_x0000_i1026" src="https://www.xrv.pt/templates/xrv/html/img/www.png" alt="Visit our website"></span></a><br><a href="https://www.facebook.com/xervers/" target="_blank" title="Visit us on Facebook"><span style='color:purple;text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=32 height=32 style='width:.3333in;height:.3333in' id="_x0000_i1027" src="https://www.xrv.pt/templates/xrv/html/img/facebook.png" alt=Facebook></span></a><a href="https://twitter.com/xervers" target="_blank" title="Visit us on Twitter"><span style='color:purple;text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=32 height=32 style='width:.3333in;height:.3333in' id="_x0000_i1028" src="https://www.xrv.pt/templates/xrv/html/img/twitter.png" alt=Twitter></span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr></table></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>On 2018-05-14 12:46, William wrote:</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 5.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>These are legacy. They are not RIR business.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>No RIR can reclaim them (and reclaim is plainly wrong, they never owned them, this is pre-RIR space), they are private property.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>Taking them is theft and nothing else, no matter how you phrase it.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>--</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>William Weber</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>Consulting, Security & Management - Tel-Aviv, Israel / Rijeka, Croatia</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><a href="https://ip6.im/" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>https://ip6.im</span></a><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>- No RIPE LIR? Still read this email for some reason? Grab a /40 *free* IPv6 space for BGP usage. Or just get it anyway, can't hurt to have.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 12:27, Bunea TELECOM <<a href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>suport@bunea.eu</span></a>> wrote:</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 5.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>I agree,<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>There are tens of /8's available, some of them even unannounced. For example there are lots of entities which if they would gave up (even partially) of their unused blocks, it would push the IPv4 complete exaustion to 2020+.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>Thanks,</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>Petru</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>—</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br><email-signature.jpg></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br><br><br><br><strong><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Petru Bunea</span></strong> / CEO <br><a href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu" target="_blank"><span style='color:#477CCC;text-decoration:none'>suport@bunea.eu</span></a><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>/<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="tel:+40752481282" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>+40752481282</span></a></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#212121'>Bunea TELECOM</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>/ DATACENTER / APP DEVELOPMENT<br><a href="http://www.bunea.eu/" target="_blank"><span style='color:#477CCC;text-decoration:none'>http://www.bunea.eu</span></a><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>/<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="tel:+40745495495" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>+40745495495</span></a><br><br><br></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 5.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>On 14 May 2018, at 11:20, Janarthanan Sundaram <<a href="mailto:j.sundaram@123telcom.nl" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>j.sundaram@123telcom.nl</span></a>> wrote:</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I think we should prioritize on on point two: what to do with unused blocks.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><strong><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Van:</span></strong> members-discuss <<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</span></a>> <strong><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Namens </span></strong>Bruno Carvalho<br><strong><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Verzonden:</span></strong> maandag 14 mei 2018 10:11<br><strong><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Aan:</span></strong> <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>members-discuss@ripe.net</span></a><br><strong><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Onderwerp:</span></strong> Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security<span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>This discussion is quite interesting. But i think it should be discussed between all RiRs. Not only for RIPE.<br>When we look at big companies, like Microsoft, and do a simple scan of their assigned IP ranges... we found some /14 and several /16 unassigned/unused ranges.</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br><br><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Personnally, i think we should focus on 2 main things:</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br><br><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>- Improve IPv6 implementation all over the territory (i know this is painfull for many LIRs because it implies additional work and purchase of new equipments. But let's face it. We are in 2018. If an equipment doesn't support IPv6, it's very obsolete and not performant).</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br><br><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>- Check with the other RiRs what would be the best to do with those big unused ranges that are owned by companies that don't use them.</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br><br><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Regards</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br><br><br></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>---</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=4 cellpadding=0><tr><td width=148 style='width:111.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><blocked.gif><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></td><td width=380 style='width:285.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Bruno Carvalho (CEO<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="http://xrv.pt/" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>xrv.pt</span></a>) | +351 300 404 316<br></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:#009900'>P</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#009900'>Please consider the environment before printing this email</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td width=64 style='width:48.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><a href="https://www.xrv.pt/" target="_blank" title=XRV><span style='color:purple;text-decoration:none'><blocked.gif></span></a><br><a href="https://www.facebook.com/xervers/" target="_blank" title="Visit us on Facebook"><span style='color:purple;text-decoration:none'><blocked.gif></span></a><a href="https://twitter.com/xervers" target="_blank" title="Visit us on Twitter"><span style='color:purple;text-decoration:none'><blocked.gif></span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr></table></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br> <br><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>On 2018-05-14 09:51, Hans Govenius wrote:</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br><br><br><br><br></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 5.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Hello<br><br>Not needed IP = The addressese company is ready to sell for a small profit </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif'>😊</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> ? This is probably good indication that its not used anymore. One option is to automatically block all and any IP transaction which does not involve transaction of the whole company/business. It is a question that can IP be a commodity. Now its a commodity that is getting more rare by the year. Maybe IP should be considered an jointly owned part of infrastructure which is deployed by need basis. (Socialistic way)<br><br>Other option is to start to take money per IP. This would instantly mean that everyone would look up to own ip spaces. Let say it would cost 1 euro / year for a IP it would only be approx 1000 euros for the smallest allocation. Someone with 10 million IP addressese are likely to happily pay for it fi they are in use, but if they are not i would think they would be handed back. (Capitalistic way)<br><br>One option is also to go with the current system because internet is working so its not horribly wrong at the moment either. <br><br>One interesting this is tho that old LIR:s are likely to wanting to keep these things unchanged. New LIR:s are more likely to want changes as this is heavily favoring old LIR:s. And every year a proportionally larger part will be the ones with few IP:s and same vote than the one with alot of IP:s and also only 1 vote. <br><br>Br. Hans <br><br><br><br><br>-----Alkuperäinen viesti-----<br>Lähettäjä: members-discuss <<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</span></a>> Puolesta REG ID: pl.skonet<br>Lähetetty: maanantai 14. toukokuuta 2018 10.34<br>Vastaanottaja: <a href="mailto:pdonner@znak.fi" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>pdonner@znak.fi</span></a>; <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>members-discuss@ripe.net</span></a><br>Aihe: Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security<br><br>W dniu 14.05.2018 o 09:25, Philip Donner pisze: </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 5.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>I would like to amplify Dave's good proposal, by suggesting that unused addresses should be handed back to RIPE, so that they can be added to a pool of addresses reserved for LIRs who needs them for non-profit promotion of IP networks.</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br><br><br></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>Ok, but there is never ending story to resolve: how to define 'unused addresses'. Because not announced in BGP definitely != not used.<br><br>--<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br><br>Tomasz Śląski<br>pl.skonet<br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>members-discuss mailing list<br><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>members-discuss@ripe.net</span></a><br><a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>https://mailman.ripe.net/</span></a><br>Unsubscribe: <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/hans.govenius%40devnet.fi" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/hans.govenius%40devnet.fi</span></a><br>_______________________________________________<br>members-discuss mailing list<br><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>members-discuss@ripe.net</span></a><br><a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/" target="_blank"><span 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