<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Everybody that says it’s theft, please consider the fact that those ‘guys’ got their hands on /8 blocks tens of years ago, and probably did not pay a dime for them.<div class="">In the light of events, one /8, respecting the 1024 IPv4 policy that RIPE has, would belong to over 16.000 LIR accounts!</div><div class="">And I must say, 16.000 companies would create a lot of business compared to one company that holds a /8 :)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thanks<br class=""><div class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">—</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><div style="line-height: normal;" class=""><div apple-content-edited="true" class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div apple-content-edited="true" class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div style="line-height: normal;" class=""><div apple-content-edited="true" class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div apple-content-edited="true" class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div style="line-height: normal;" class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span><img apple-inline="yes" id="25FBC20F-4BD2-419E-B8A7-45F826559354" src="cid:D3EC510C-8DD4-413A-919B-016F7A92B2B5" class=""></span><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; line-height: normal;" class=""><span class="txt sig-hide signature_name-target" data-mce-style="font-weight: bold; color: #212121; display: inline;" style="display: inline;"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><b class="">Petru Bunea</b></span> <span class="sep title-sep" data-mce-style="display: inline;" style="display: inline;">/</span> <span class="txt sig-hide signature_jobtitle-target" data-mce-style="color: #212121; display: inline;" style="display: inline;">CEO</span> <span class="break email-sep" data-mce-style="display: inline;" style="display: inline;"><br class=""></span><a class="email signature_email-target sig-hide link" href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu" data-mce-href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu" data-mce-style="color: #477ccc; text-decoration: none; display: inline;" style="color: rgb(71, 124, 204); text-decoration: none; display: inline;">suport@bunea.eu</a><span class="sep signature_email-sep" data-mce-style="display: inline;" style="display: inline;"> / </span><span class="txt signature_mobilephone-target sig-hide" data-mce-style="color: #212121; display: inline;" style="display: inline;"><a href="tel:+40752481282" data-mce-href="tel:+40752481282" class="">+40752481282</a></span></div><p data-mce-style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10px; line-height: 12px; margin-bottom: 10px;" class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; widows: 1; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10px; line-height: 12px; margin-bottom: 10px;"><span class="txt signature_companyname-target sig-hide" data-mce-style="font-weight: bold; color: #212121; display: inline;" style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(33, 33, 33); display: inline;">Bunea TELECOM</span> / DATACENTER / APP DEVELOPMENT<span class="break company-sep" data-mce-style="display: inline;" style="display: inline;"><br class=""></span><span class="txt signature_officephone-target sig-hide" data-mce-style="color: #212121;" style="color: rgb(33, 33, 33);"></span><span class="txt signature_fax-target sig-hide" data-mce-style="color: #212121;" style="color: rgb(33, 33, 33);"></span><span class="break address-sep"></span><span class="txt signature_address-target sig-hide" data-mce-style="color: #212121;" style="color: rgb(33, 33, 33);"></span><span class="break address2-sep"></span><span class="txt signature_address2-target sig-hide" data-mce-style="color: #212121;" style="color: rgb(33, 33, 33);"></span><span class="break website-sep"></span><a class="link signature_website-target sig-hide" href="http://www.bunea.eu/" data-mce-href="http://www.bunea.eu" data-mce-style="color: #477ccc; text-decoration: none; display: inline;" style="color: rgb(71, 124, 204); text-decoration: none; display: inline;">http://www.bunea.eu</a> / <a href="tel:+40745495495" data-mce-href="tel:+40745495495" class="">+40745495495</a></p>
</span></div>
<br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 14 May 2018, at 14:16, Alex Lobachov <<a href="mailto:alxl@telenet.lv" class="">alxl@telenet.lv</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type" class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif" dir="ltr" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri;" class="">
<div class="">Bruno has it’s point.</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">Legacy parts of the space should be reclaimed, but only ICANN has the power
to do so.</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">I don’t like to call it a thief, I’d rather say as all IP space is rented
(owning a number isn’t bright), all that rented space, wherever it is legacy or
current should be re-audited to justify the reason of use.</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri;" class=""><br class="">--<br class="">Alex
Lobachov<br class="">Telenet, sia<br class="">Network Systems Engineer<br class="">LinkedIn:
<a href="https://lv.linkedin.com/in/allxll" class="">https://lv.linkedin.com/in/allxll</a><br class="">E-mail: <a href="mailto:alxl@telenet.lv" class="">alxl@telenet.lv</a><br class="">Skype:
alxl__<br class="">Direct office: +371 67886224<br class="">Office: +371 67711111<br class=""><br class=""></div>
<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class="">
<div style="FONT: 10pt tahoma" class="">
<div class=""> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5" class="">
<div style="font-color: black" class=""><b class="">From:</b> <a title="bruno.carvalho@xrv.pt" href="mailto:bruno.carvalho@xrv.pt" class="">Bruno Carvalho</a> </div>
<div class=""><b class="">Sent:</b> Monday, May 14, 2018 2:04 PM</div>
<div class=""><b class="">To:</b> <a title="members-discuss@ripe.net" href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" class="">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> </div>
<div class=""><b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer
(in)security</div></div></div>
<div class=""> </div></div>
<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class=""><div class="">William,</div><div class="">Legacy or not, at one point a regulation was introduced. And everyone should
be regulated (pre-RIR or not).</div><div class="">Is the same has if you own a car from back the traffic laws (1800 years?). If
you drive it now, you have to comply with all the laws that regulate the
sector.<br class="">Why the legacy address space owners shouldn't have to comply with the
actual regulations?</div><div class="">If we look deep on the spaces between 0.0.0.0 and 255.255.255.255 (that are
not local or bogons), i bet that most than 50% are legacy and not used.</div>
<div class="">---<br class="">
<table style="" class="">
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    <td style="WIDTH: 148px" class=""><img alt="XRV" src="https://www.xrv.pt/templates/xrv/html/img/xrv.png" width="148" height="43" class=""></td>
    <td style="WIDTH: 380px" class=""><p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class="">Bruno Carvalho (CEO <a href="http://xrv.pt" class="">xrv.pt</a>) | +351 300 404
      316<br class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: webdings; COLOR: #009900" class="">P</span> <span style="FONT-FAMILY: helvetica; COLOR: #009900" class="">Please consider the
      environment before printing this email</span></p></td>
    <td style="WIDTH: 64px; TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=""><a title="XRV" href="https://www.xrv.pt/" class=""><img alt="Visit our website" src="https://www.xrv.pt/templates/xrv/html/img/www.png" width="53" height="32" class=""></a><br class=""><a title="Visit us on Facebook" href="https://www.facebook.com/xervers/" class=""><img alt="Facebook" src="https://www.xrv.pt/templates/xrv/html/img/facebook.png" width="32" height="32" class=""></a><a title="Visit us on Twitter" href="https://twitter.com/xervers" class=""><img alt="Twitter" src="https://www.xrv.pt/templates/xrv/html/img/twitter.png" width="32" height="32" class=""></a></td></tr></tbody></table></div><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class="">On 2018-05-14 12:46, William wrote:</div>
<blockquote style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0.4em; MARGIN: 0px; 
BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0.4em" type="cite" class=""><!-- html ignored --><!-- head ignored --><!-- meta ignored -->
  <div style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma; DIRECTION: ltr" class="">
  <div style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma" class=""> </div>These are
  legacy. They are not RIR business.
  <div class=""> </div>
  <div class="">No RIR can reclaim them (and reclaim is plainly wrong, they never owned
  them, this is pre-RIR space), they are private property.</div>
  <div class=""> </div>
  <div class="">Taking them is theft and nothing else, no matter how you phrase it.</div>
  <div class=""> </div>
  <div class="">
  <div style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma" class="">--</div>
  <div style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma" class="">William Weber</div>
  <div style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma" class="">Consulting, Security & Management -
  Tel-Aviv, Israel / Rijeka, Croatia</div>
  <div style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma" class=""> </div>
  <div style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma" class=""><a style="CURSOR: pointer" href="https://ip6.im/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://ip6.im</a> - No RIPE LIR? Still read this email for some
  reason? Grab a /40 *free* IPv6 space for BGP usage. Or just get it anyway,
  can't hurt to have.</div>
  <div class=""> </div>
  <div class=""> </div>
  <div class=""> </div><br class=""><br class="">
  <div class="">On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 12:27, Bunea TELECOM <<a href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu" class="">suport@bunea.eu</a>>
  wrote:</div>
  <blockquote style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0.4em; MARGIN: 
0px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0.4em" type="cite" class="">
    <div class="">
    <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: 
after-white-space" class="">I
    agree,
    <div class=""> </div>
    <div class="">There are tens of /8's available, some of them even unannounced. For
    example there are lots of entities which if they would gave up (even
    partially) of their unused blocks, it would push the IPv4 complete exaustion
    to 2020+. </div>
    <div class=""> </div>
    <div class="">Thanks,</div>
    <div class="">Petru<br class="">
    <div class="">
    <div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: helvetica; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-transform: none; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">—</div>
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after-white-space" class="">
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after-white-space" class="">
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    <div class="">
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after-white-space" class="">
    <div class="">
    <div class="">
    <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: 
after-white-space" class="">
    <div class="">
    <div style="LINE-HEIGHT: 
normal" class=""> </div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br style="font-size: 12px; font-family: helvetica; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-transform: none; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12px; font-family: helvetica; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-transform: none; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12px; font-family: helvetica; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-transform: none; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span class=""><span id="cid:4F78415B98D74133B4D66DB63D704495@asmodeus"><email-signature.jpg></span></span></span></span>
    <div style="white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-transform: none; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-family: helvetica; letter-spacing: normal; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="DISPLAY: inline" class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><strong class="">Petru
    Bunea</strong></span> <span style="DISPLAY: inline" class="">/</span> <span style="DISPLAY: inline" class="">CEO</span> <span style="DISPLAY: inline" class=""><br class=""></span><a style="TEXT-DECORATION: none; COLOR: #477ccc; DISPLAY: inline" href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu" class="">suport@bunea.eu</a><span style="DISPLAY: inline" class=""> / </span><span style="DISPLAY: inline" class=""><a href="tel:+40752481282" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">+40752481282</a></span></div><span style="font-size: 12px; font-family: helvetica; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-transform: none; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; COLOR: #212121; DISPLAY: inline" class="">Bunea
    TELECOM</span> / DATACENTER / APP DEVELOPMENT<span style="DISPLAY: inline" class=""><br class=""></span><span style="COLOR: #212121" class=""></span><span style="COLOR: #212121" class=""></span><span class=""></span><span style="COLOR: #212121" class=""></span><span class=""></span><span style="COLOR: #212121" class=""></span><span class=""></span><a style="TEXT-DECORATION: none; COLOR: #477ccc; DISPLAY: inline" href="http://www.bunea.eu/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://www.bunea.eu</a> / <a href="tel:+40745495495" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">+40745495495</a><br class=""></span></div>
    <div class=""> </div>
    <div class="">
    <blockquote style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0.4em; MARGIN: 
0px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0.4em" type="cite" class="">
      <div class="">On 14 May 2018, at 11:20, Janarthanan Sundaram <<a href="mailto:j.sundaram@123telcom.nl" class="">j.sundaram@123telcom.nl</a>>
      wrote:</div>
      <div class=""> </div>
      <div class="">
      <div style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; 
WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-STYLE: 
normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 
0px; page: wordsection1; font-variant-caps: normal" class="">
      <div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0cm 
0cm 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: 
#1f497d" class="">I
      think we should prioritize on on point two: what to do with unused
      blocks.<br class=""></span></div>
      <div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0cm 
0cm 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: 
#1f497d" class=""><br class=""></span> </div>
      <div class="">
      <div style="BORDER-TOP: #e1e1e1 1pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; 
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 
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      <div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0cm 
0cm 0pt" class=""><strong class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, 
sans-serif" class="">Van:</span></strong><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, 
sans-serif" class=""><span class=""> </span>members-discuss
      <<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net" class="">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>><span class=""> </span><strong class="">Namens<span class=""> </span></strong>Bruno
      Carvalho<br class=""><strong class="">Verzonden:</strong><span class=""> </span>maandag 14 mei
      2018 10:11<br class=""><strong class="">Aan:</strong><span class=""> </span><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" class="">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br class=""><strong class="">Onderwerp:</strong><span class=""> </span>Re:
      [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer
(in)security<br class=""></span></div></div></div>
      <div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0cm 
0cm 0pt" class=""> </div><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: verdana, sans-serif" class="">This discussion
      is quite interesting. But i think it should be discussed between all RiRs.
      Not only for RIPE.<br class="">When we look at big companies, like Microsoft, and
      do a simple scan of their assigned IP ranges... we found some /14 and
      several /16 unassigned/unused ranges.</span><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: verdana, sans-serif" class="">Personnally, i
      think we should focus on 2 main things:</span><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: verdana, sans-serif" class="">- Improve IPv6
      implementation all over the territory (i know this is painfull for many
      LIRs because it implies additional work and purchase of new equipments.
      But let's face it. We are in 2018. If an equipment doesn't support IPv6,
      it's very obsolete and not performant).</span><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: verdana, sans-serif" class="">- Check with the
      other RiRs what would be the best to do with those big unused ranges that
      are owned by companies that don't use them.</span><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: verdana, 
sans-serif" class="">Regards</span><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">
      <div class="">
      <div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0cm 
0cm 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: verdana, 
sans-serif" class="">---<br class=""></span></div>
      <table style="" cellspacing="4" cellpadding="0" border="0" class="">
        <tbody class="">
        <tr class="">
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            <div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; 
MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=""><span id="cid:E913C58725DB4093B2A52ABB36C87B28@asmodeus"><blocked.gif></span></div></td>
          <td style="WIDTH: 285pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt; 
PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt" width="141" class="">Bruno Carvalho (CEO <a href="http://xrv.pt/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">xrv.pt</a>) | +351 300 404
            316<br class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: webdings; COLOR: #009900" class="">P</span> <span style="FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: #009900" class="">Please
            consider the environment before printing this
            email</span><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""></td>
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PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt" width="60" class="">
            <div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; 
TEXT-ALIGN: center; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=""><a title="XRV" style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="https://www.xrv.pt/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" class=""><span style="TEXT-DECORATION: none" class=""><span id="cid:E913C58725DB4093B2A52ABB36C87B28@asmodeus"><blocked.gif></span></span></a><br class=""><a title="Visit us on Facebook" style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="https://www.facebook.com/xervers/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" class=""><span style="TEXT-DECORATION: none" class=""><span id="cid:E913C58725DB4093B2A52ABB36C87B28@asmodeus"><blocked.gif></span></span></a><a title="Visit us on Twitter" style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="https://twitter.com/xervers" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" class=""><span style="TEXT-DECORATION: none" class=""><span id="cid:E913C58725DB4093B2A52ABB36C87B28@asmodeus"><blocked.gif></span></span></a></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: verdana, 
sans-serif" class=""></span><br class=""> <br class=""><br class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: verdana, sans-serif" class="">On 2018-05-14
      09:51, Hans Govenius wrote:</span><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">
      <blockquote style="BORDER-TOP-STYLE: none; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 
0cm; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 5pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 
0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm" class="" type="cite">
        <div class="">
        <div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 
0cm 0cm 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'" class="">Hello<br class=""><br class="">Not
        needed IP = The addressese company is ready to sell for a small
        profit<span class=""> </span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI Symbol', 
sans-serif" class="">😊</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'" class=""><span class=""> </span>?
        This is probably good indication that its not used anymore. One option
        is to automatically block all and any IP transaction which does not
        involve transaction of the whole company/business. It is a question that
        can IP be a commodity. Now its a commodity that is getting more rare by
        the year. Maybe IP should be considered an jointly owned part of
        infrastructure which is deployed by need basis. (Socialistic
        way)<br class=""><br class="">Other option is to start to take money per IP. This would
        instantly mean that everyone would look up to own ip spaces. Let say it
        would cost 1 euro / year for a IP it would only be approx 1000 euros for
        the smallest allocation. Someone with 10 million IP addressese are
        likely to happily pay for it fi they are in use, but if they are not i
        would think they would be handed back. (Capitalistic way)<br class=""><br class="">One
        option is also to go with the current system because internet is working
        so its not horribly wrong at the moment
        either.<span class=""> </span><br class=""><br class="">One interesting this is tho that old
        LIR:s are likely to wanting to keep these things unchanged. New LIR:s
        are more likely to want changes as this is heavily favoring old LIR:s.
        And every year a proportionally larger part will be the ones with few
        IP:s and same vote than the one with alot of IP:s and also only 1
        vote.<span class=""> </span><br class=""><br class="">Br.
        Hans<span class=""> </span><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">-----Alkuperäinen
        viesti-----<br class="">Lähettäjä: members-discuss <<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net" class="">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>>
        Puolesta REG ID: pl.skonet<br class="">Lähetetty: maanantai 14. toukokuuta 2018
        10.34<br class="">Vastaanottaja:<span class=""> </span><a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:pdonner@znak.fi" class="">pdonner@znak.fi</a>;<span class=""> </span><a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" class="">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br class="">Aihe:
        Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security<br class=""><br class="">W dniu
        14.05.2018 o 09:25, Philip Donner
        pisze:<span class=""> </span><br class=""></span></div>
        <blockquote style="BORDER-TOP-STYLE: none; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; 
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 
5pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; 
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm" class="" type="cite"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'" class=""><br class="">I would like
          to amplify Dave's good proposal, by suggesting that unused addresses
          should be handed back to RIPE, so that they can be added to a pool of
          addresses reserved for LIRs who needs them for non-profit promotion of
          IP networks.</span><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""></blockquote>
        <div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 
0cm 0cm 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'" class=""><br class="">Ok, but there is
        never ending story to resolve: how to define 'unused addresses'. Because
        not announced in BGP definitely != not used.<br class=""><br class="">-- <br class=""><br class="">Tomasz
        Śląski<br class="">pl.skonet<br class=""><br class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">members-discuss
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