<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"> <style></style> </head> <body lang="NL" link="blue" vlink="purple"> <div class="WordSection1"> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">My guess is that they run the unsubscribe service used by Ripe so let’s hope they fix it soon !! </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">J</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Bart<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Van:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] <b>Namens </b>??????? ?. ????????<br> <b>Verzonden:</b> maandag 14 mei 2018 16:13<br> <b>Aan:</b> Daniel Pearson <daniel@privatesystems.net>; Adrian Bolster <Adrian.Bolster@purebroadband.net>; Anas Tablieh <ATablieh@sierrawireless.com>; members-discuss@ripe.net<br> <b>Onderwerp:</b> Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:windowtext">Some guys from Hungary open a case when get e-mail for this maillist. )<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:windowtext"><img width="430" height="92" id="Picture_x0020_7" src="cid:image007.png@01D3EBA3.FF20C290"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:windowtext">Капсалов Ярослав<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:windowtext"><a href="mailto:yk@sistele.com">yk<span lang="RU">@sistele.com</span></a></span><span lang="RU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:windowtext">Компания «СИС Телеком»<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:windowtext">+7 (495) 825-26-27<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:windowtext">пр-т Андропова, дом 22, г. Москва, 115533 (БЦ "Нагатинский")<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:windowtext"><a href="http://www.sistele.com/">http://www.sistele.com/</a></span><span lang="RU" style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="RU">From: </span></b><span lang="RU">members-discuss <<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>> on behalf of Daniel Pearson <<a href="mailto:daniel@privatesystems.net">daniel@privatesystems.net</a>><br> <b>Organization: </b>PrivateSystems<br> <b>Date: </b>Monday, 14 May 2018 at 17:08<br> <b>To: </b>Adrian Bolster <<a href="mailto:Adrian.Bolster@purebroadband.net">Adrian.Bolster@purebroadband.net</a>>, Anas Tablieh <<a href="mailto:ATablieh@sierrawireless.com">ATablieh@sierrawireless.com</a>>, "<a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a>><br> <b>Subject: </b>Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="RU">It seems most people don't look at the links and click the first unsubscribe link they find, half the time not associated with their email address. <br> <br> I get them too... I blame technology for dumbing things down so people don't think. :)<br> <br> On 05/14/2018 08:24 AM, Adrian Bolster wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></a></p> </div> <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Go on then… who tried to unsubscribe me?</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> members-discuss </span><a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net></span></a><span lang="RU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> </span><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">On Behalf Of </span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Daniel Pearson<br> <b>Sent:</b> 14 May 2018 13:50<br> <b>To:</b> Anas Tablieh </span><a href="mailto:ATablieh@sierrawireless.com"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><ATablieh@sierrawireless.com></span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">; </span><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">members-discuss@ripe.net</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU"> <o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU">Well, use your email address and reset it :)<br> <br> On 05/14/2018 07:48 AM, Anas Tablieh wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">unsubscribe link need a password !! </span> <span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> Daniel Pearson </span><a href="mailto:daniel@privatesystems.net"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><daniel@privatesystems.net></span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> <br> <b>Sent:</b> lundi 14 mai 2018 14:48<br> <b>To:</b> Anas Tablieh </span><a href="mailto:ATablieh@sierrawireless.com"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><ATablieh@sierrawireless.com></span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">; </span><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">members-discuss@ripe.net</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU">Hi there,<br> <br> This is a mailing list, please use the unsubscribe link at the bottom of these emails that is associated with your email address!<br> <br> <br> <br> On 05/14/2018 07:45 AM, Anas Tablieh wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Please remove my mail address from this chat !!!!!!</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> members-discuss </span><a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net></span></a><span lang="RU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> </span><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">On Behalf Of </span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Daniel Pearson<br> <b>Sent:</b> lundi 14 mai 2018 14:25<br> <b>To:</b> </span><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">members-discuss@ripe.net</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU"> <o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU">I concur, there is no legal leg to stand on to force space to be returned. It just cannot happen, end period. Thinking about it is nothing but a fantasy and we live in reality.<br> <br> What your asking is no different than having a complete stranger walk up to your house, admire your big empty back yard, demand that you give it to them because they want to build a house in your neighborhood and well, you don't use your backyard so why can't they have it for free?<br> <br> <br> <br> On 05/14/2018 07:05 AM, Peter Linder wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <p><span lang="RU">But there is no point in arguing this. It has been discussed over and over:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span lang="RU">It is not feasible to "reclaim" legacy space, just because you want it for free or at a very low cost. Current holders have a good legal ground to refuse. Even if it was somehow reclaimed on a large scale, it would last for a year or so? Remember, most addresses would need to go to countries with large populations where Internet is not built up like it is in Europe or North America. Then what? Even if RIPE could reallocate addresses to last a few more years it would mean even *more* work to do v6, not less. <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span lang="RU">Just buy the addresses you need, if more than RIPE will allocate to you. I know this sucks, especially in poorer countries. But that is probably the only way your business is going to happen, in the short term. An alternative would be to bother the IETF to release their reserved space but that is probably a waste of time (never mind de-bogonizing it).<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span lang="RU">Right now IPv4 shortage is hurting a little because of cost. It will eventually start hurting more, and in different ways. There are ways to prepare for that, including making sure v6 is enabled and functioning on everything you make. <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span lang="RU">/Peter<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span lang="RU"> <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU"> <o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU">Den 2018-05-14 kl. 13:38, skrev David Benwell:<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">No its about preventing the waste of IP Addresses. Why allow a LLR to retain address space that they may never have used.</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> members-discuss [</span><a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">] <b>On Behalf Of </b>William<br> <b>Sent:</b> 14 May 2018 12:32<br> <b>To:</b> Bunea TELECOM </span><a href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><suport@bunea.eu></span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><br> <b>Cc:</b> </span><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">members-discuss@ripe.net</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU"> <o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">But this does not CHANGE IT IS THEFT, please have a look at your history (or here in Croatia) - you want to do the same, steal from some parts of the society ('the rich') to 'benefit' the whole which ends horribly wrong.</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">This discussion is almost as absurd as the Russian suggestion to move RIPE to Moscow.</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">--</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">William Weber</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Consulting, Security & Management - Tel-Aviv, Israel / Rijeka, Croatia</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://ip6.im"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">https://ip6.im</span></a><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> - No RIPE LIR? Still read this email for some reason? Grab a /40 *free* IPv6 space for BGP usage. Or just get it anyway, can't hurt to have.</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 13:16, Bunea TELECOM <</span><a href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">suport@bunea.eu</span></a><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">> wrote:</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Everybody that says it’s theft, please consider the fact that those ‘guys’ got their hands on /8 blocks tens of years ago, and probably did not pay a dime for them.</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">In the light of events, one /8, respecting the 1024 IPv4 policy that RIPE has, would belong to over 16.000 LIR accounts!</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">And I must say, 16.000 companies would create a lot of business compared to one company that holds a /8 :)</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Thanks</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">—</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br> <img border="0" width="63" height="73" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image008.jpg@01D3EBA3.FF20C290" alt="imap://daniel%40knownhost%2Ecom@mail.knownhost.com:143/fetch%3EUID%3E.INBOX%3E303885?header=quotebody&part=1.2&filename=image001.jpg"></span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br> <br> <br> <br> <b>Petru Bunea</b> / CEO <br> </span><a href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu" target="_blank"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#477CCC;text-decoration:none">suport@bunea.eu</span></a><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> / </span><a href="tel:+40752481282" target="_blank"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">+40752481282</span></a><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#212121">Bunea TELECOM</span></b><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> / DATACENTER / APP DEVELOPMENT<br> </span><a href="http://www.bunea.eu/" target="_blank"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#477CCC;text-decoration:none">http://www.bunea.eu</span></a><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> / </span><a href="tel:+40745495495" target="_blank"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">+40745495495</span></a><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br> <br> <br> <br> <br> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">On 14 May 2018, at 14:16, Alex Lobachov <</span><a href="mailto:alxl@telenet.lv" target="_blank"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">alxl@telenet.lv</span></a><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">> wrote:</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Bruno has it’s point.</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Legacy parts of the space should be reclaimed, but only ICANN has the power to do so.</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I don’t like to call it a thief, I’d rather say as all IP space is rented (owning a number isn’t bright), all that rented space, wherever it is legacy or current should be re-audited to justify the reason of use.</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><br> --<br> Alex Lobachov<br> Telenet, sia<br> Network Systems Engineer<br> LinkedIn: </span><a href="https://lv.linkedin.com/in/allxll" target="_blank"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">https://lv.linkedin.com/in/allxll</span></a><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><br> E-mail: </span><a href="mailto:alxl@telenet.lv" target="_blank"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">alxl@telenet.lv</span></a><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><br> Skype: alxl__<br> Direct office: +371 67886224<br> Office: +371 67711111</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span lang="RU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="RU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><a href="mailto:bruno.carvalho@xrv.pt" target="_blank" title="bruno.carvalho@xrv.pt"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Bruno Carvalho</span></a><span lang="RU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span lang="RU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Sent:</span></b><span lang="RU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> Monday, May 14, 2018 2:04 PM</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span lang="RU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">To:</span></b><span lang="RU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank" title="members-discuss@ripe.net"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">members-discuss@ripe.net</span></a><span lang="RU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span lang="RU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Subject:</span></b><span lang="RU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">William,</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Legacy or not, at one point a regulation was introduced. And everyone should be regulated (pre-RIR or not).</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Is the same has if you own a car from back the traffic laws (1800 years?). If you drive it now, you have to comply with all the laws that regulate the sector.<br> Why the legacy address space owners shouldn't have to comply with the actual regulations?</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">If we look deep on the spaces between 0.0.0.0 and 255.255.255.255 (that are not local or bogons), i bet that most than 50% are legacy and not used.</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">---</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="3" cellpadding="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td width="148" style="width:111.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm"><img border="0" width="148" height="43" id="Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image009.jpg@01D3EBA3.FF20C290" alt="Image removed by sender. XRV"></span><o:p></o:p></p> </td> <td width="380" style="width:285.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> <p class="MsoNormal">Bruno Carvalho (CEO <a href="http://xrv.pt" target="_blank"> xrv.pt</a>) | +351 300 404 316<br> <span style="font-family:Webdings;color:#009900">P</span> <span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#009900">Please consider the environment before printing this email</span><o:p></o:p></p> </td> <td width="64" style="width:48.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> <p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><a href="https://www.xrv.pt/" target="_blank" title="XRV"><span style="border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="53" height="32" id="Picture_x0020_3" src="cid:image010.jpg@01D3EBA3.FF20C290" alt="Image removed by sender. Visit our website"></span></a><br> <a href="https://www.facebook.com/xervers/" target="_blank" title="Visit us on Facebook"><span style="border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="32" height="32" id="Picture_x0020_4" src="cid:image011.jpg@01D3EBA3.FF20C290" alt="Image removed by sender. Facebook"></span></a><a href="https://twitter.com/xervers" target="_blank" title="Visit us on Twitter"><span style="border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="32" height="32" id="Picture_x0020_5" src="cid:image011.jpg@01D3EBA3.FF20C290" alt="Image removed by sender. Twitter"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">On 2018-05-14 12:46, William wrote:</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 5.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">These are legacy. They are not RIR business. </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">No RIR can reclaim them (and reclaim is plainly wrong, they never owned them, this is pre-RIR space), they are private property.</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Taking them is theft and nothing else, no matter how you phrase it.</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">--</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">William Weber</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Consulting, Security & Management - Tel-Aviv, Israel / Rijeka, Croatia</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://ip6.im/" target="_blank"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">https://ip6.im</span></a><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> - No RIPE LIR? Still read this email for some reason? Grab a /40 *free* IPv6 space for BGP usage. Or just get it anyway, can't hurt to have.</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 12:27, Bunea TELECOM <</span><a href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu" target="_blank"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">suport@bunea.eu</span></a><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">> wrote:</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 5.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">I agree, </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">There are tens of /8's available, some of them even unannounced. For example there are lots of entities which if they would gave up (even partially) of their unused blocks, it would push the IPv4 complete exaustion to 2020+. </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Thanks,</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Petru</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">—</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br> <email-signature.jpg></span><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br> <br> <br> <br> <strong><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Petru Bunea</span></strong> / CEO <br> </span><a href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu" target="_blank"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#477CCC;text-decoration:none">suport@bunea.eu</span></a><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> / </span><a href="tel:+40752481282" target="_blank"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">+40752481282</span></a><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#212121">Bunea TELECOM</span></b><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> / DATACENTER / APP DEVELOPMENT<br> </span><a href="http://www.bunea.eu/" target="_blank"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#477CCC;text-decoration:none">http://www.bunea.eu</span></a><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> / </span><a href="tel:+40745495495" target="_blank"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">+40745495495</span></a><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br> <br> <br> <br> <br> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 5.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">On 14 May 2018, at 11:20, Janarthanan Sundaram <</span><a href="mailto:j.sundaram@123telcom.nl" target="_blank"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">j.sundaram@123telcom.nl</span></a><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">> wrote:</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I think we should prioritize on on point two: what to do with unused blocks.</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><br> </span><span lang="RU"> <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span lang="RU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Van:</span></strong><span lang="RU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> members-discuss <</span><a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net" target="_blank"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</span></a><span lang="RU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">> <strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Namens </span></strong>Bruno Carvalho<br> <strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Verzonden:</span></strong> maandag 14 mei 2018 10:11<br> <strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Aan:</span></strong> </span><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">members-discuss@ripe.net</span></a><span lang="RU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><br> <strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Onderwerp:</span></strong> Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU"> <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">This discussion is quite interesting. But i think it should be discussed between all RiRs. Not only for RIPE.<br> When we look at big companies, like Microsoft, and do a simple scan of their assigned IP ranges... we found some /14 and several /16 unassigned/unused ranges.</span><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br> <br> <br> </span><span lang="RU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Personnally, i think we should focus on 2 main things:</span><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br> <br> <br> </span><span lang="RU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">- Improve IPv6 implementation all over the territory (i know this is painfull for many LIRs because it implies additional work and purchase of new equipments. But let's face it. We are in 2018. If an equipment doesn't support IPv6, it's very obsolete and not performant).</span><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br> <br> <br> </span><span lang="RU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">- Check with the other RiRs what would be the best to do with those big unused ranges that are owned by companies that don't use them.</span><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br> <br> <br> </span><span lang="RU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Regards</span><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br> <br> <br> <br> <br> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">---</span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="4" cellpadding="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td width="148" style="width:111.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><blocked.gif><o:p></o:p></p> </div> </td> <td width="380" style="width:285.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Bruno Carvalho (CEO <a href="http://xrv.pt/" target="_blank"> xrv.pt</a>) | +351 300 404 316<br> <span style="font-family:Webdings;color:#009900">P</span> <span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#009900">Please consider the environment before printing this email</span><br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <o:p></o:p></p> </td> <td width="64" style="width:48.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> <p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><a href="https://www.xrv.pt/" target="_blank" title="XRV"><span style="color:purple;text-decoration:none"><blocked.gif></span></a><br> <a href="https://www.facebook.com/xervers/" target="_blank" title="Visit us on Facebook"><span style="color:purple;text-decoration:none"><blocked.gif></span></a><a href="https://twitter.com/xervers" target="_blank" title="Visit us on Twitter"><span style="color:purple;text-decoration:none"><blocked.gif></span></a><o:p></o:p></p> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br> <br> <br> </span><span lang="RU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">On 2018-05-14 09:51, Hans Govenius wrote:</span><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 5.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif">Hello<br> <br> Not needed IP = The addressese company is ready to sell for a small profit </span><span lang="RU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI Symbol",sans-serif">😊</span><span lang="RU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif"> ? This is probably good indication that its not used anymore. One option is to automatically block all and any IP transaction which does not involve transaction of the whole company/business. It is a question that can IP be a commodity. Now its a commodity that is getting more rare by the year. Maybe IP should be considered an jointly owned part of infrastructure which is deployed by need basis. (Socialistic way)<br> <br> Other option is to start to take money per IP. This would instantly mean that everyone would look up to own ip spaces. Let say it would cost 1 euro / year for a IP it would only be approx 1000 euros for the smallest allocation. Someone with 10 million IP addressese are likely to happily pay for it fi they are in use, but if they are not i would think they would be handed back. (Capitalistic way)<br> <br> One option is also to go with the current system because internet is working so its not horribly wrong at the moment either. <br> <br> One interesting this is tho that old LIR:s are likely to wanting to keep these things unchanged. New LIR:s are more likely to want changes as this is heavily favoring old LIR:s. And every year a proportionally larger part will be the ones with few IP:s and same vote than the one with alot of IP:s and also only 1 vote. <br> <br> Br. Hans <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> -----Alkuperäinen viesti-----<br> Lähettäjä: members-discuss <</span><a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net" target="_blank"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</span></a><span lang="RU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif">> Puolesta REG ID: pl.skonet<br> Lähetetty: maanantai 14. toukokuuta 2018 10.34<br> Vastaanottaja: </span><a href="mailto:pdonner@znak.fi" target="_blank"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif">pdonner@znak.fi</span></a><span lang="RU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif">; </span><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif">members-discuss@ripe.net</span></a><span lang="RU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif"><br> Aihe: Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security<br> <br> W dniu 14.05.2018 o 09:25, Philip Donner pisze: </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 5.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New ,serif",serif"><br> I would like to amplify Dave's good proposal, by suggesting that unused addresses should be handed back to RIPE, so that they can be added to a pool of addresses reserved for LIRs who needs them for non-profit promotion of IP networks.</span><span lang="RU" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br> <br> <br> <br> <br> </span><span lang="RU"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </blockquote> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif"><br> Ok, but there is never ending story to resolve: how to define 'unused addresses'. 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