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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hah whoops, I saw the A and went for
      it, I meant to use Anas Tablieh's address<br>
      <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ATablieh%40sierrawireless.com">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ATablieh%40sierrawireless.com</a><br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 05/14/2018 08:51 AM, Adrian Bolster wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:003c04b0ab08498db7f25eadc5e08d8d@purebroadband.net">
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Not
            me, I don’t want to be unsubscribed. People keep trying to
            unsubscribe me though! Latest was from
          </span>185.151.148.95<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Members,
            if you want to unsubscribe use the URL Daniel so kindly
            shared with the list; however be sure to replace my email
            address with yours, leave the %40 in place of the @<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"
                  lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"
                lang="EN-US"> Daniel Pearson
                <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:daniel@privatesystems.net"><daniel@privatesystems.net></a>
                <br>
                <b>Sent:</b> 14 May 2018 14:40<br>
                <b>To:</b> Anas Tablieh
                <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ATablieh@sierrawireless.com"><ATablieh@sierrawireless.com></a>; Adrian Bolster
                <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Adrian.Bolster@purebroadband.net"><Adrian.Bolster@purebroadband.net></a>;
                <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br>
                <b>Subject:</b> Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer
                (in)security<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Hi there,<br>
            <br>
            Make sure the link you are clicking actually includes your
            email address. That's where the smarts come in, look at the
            last bit of the URL, does it look like the one below.<br>
            <br>
            So for yours it will be this: <a
href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/Adrian.Bolster%40purebroadband.net"
              moz-do-not-send="true">
https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/Adrian.Bolster%40purebroadband.net</a><br>
            <br>
            Try that should work for you. <br>
            <br>
            Most likely you are 185.79.217.61 who's currently trying to
            reset my password. Sorry that's the wrong link!<br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <br>
            On 05/14/2018 08:35 AM, Anas Tablieh wrote:<span
              style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Daniel</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
              lang="EN-US">You don’t need to be smart to find the
            </span><span lang="EN-US">unsubscribe link, but I said many
              times IT DOESN’T WORK.. it need password , password can’t
              be reset !!!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
              lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <div>
            <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
              1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"
                    lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"
                  lang="EN-US"> Daniel Pearson
                  <a href="mailto:daniel@privatesystems.net"
                    moz-do-not-send="true"><daniel@privatesystems.net></a>
                  <br>
                  <b>Sent:</b> lundi 14 mai 2018 15:27<br>
                  <b>To:</b> Adrian Bolster <a
                    href="mailto:Adrian.Bolster@purebroadband.net"
                    moz-do-not-send="true"><Adrian.Bolster@purebroadband.net></a>;
                  Anas Tablieh
                  <a href="mailto:ATablieh@sierrawireless.com"
                    moz-do-not-send="true"><ATablieh@sierrawireless.com></a>;
                  <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">
                    members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br>
                  <b>Subject:</b> Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer
                  (in)security</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">It seems most people don't look at the
              links and click the first unsubscribe link they find, half
              the time not associated with their email address.
              <br>
              <br>
              I get them too... I blame technology for dumbing things
              down so people don't think. :)<br>
              <br>
              On 05/14/2018 08:24 AM, Adrian Bolster wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Go
                on then… who tried to unsubscribe me?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <div>
              <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
                1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"
                      lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"
                    lang="EN-US"> members-discuss
                    <a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net"
                      moz-do-not-send="true"><members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net></a>
                    <b>On Behalf Of </b>Daniel Pearson<br>
                    <b>Sent:</b> 14 May 2018 13:50<br>
                    <b>To:</b> Anas Tablieh <a
                      href="mailto:ATablieh@sierrawireless.com"
                      moz-do-not-send="true"><ATablieh@sierrawireless.com></a>;
                    <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br>
                    <b>Subject:</b> Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP
                    transfer (in)security</span><o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
            </div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">Well, use your email address and
                reset it :)<br>
                <br>
                On 05/14/2018 07:48 AM, Anas Tablieh wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">unsubscribe link
                  need a password !! </span>
                <o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
                  lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <div>
                <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
                  1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"
                        lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"
                      lang="EN-US"> Daniel Pearson
                      <a href="mailto:daniel@privatesystems.net"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"><daniel@privatesystems.net></a>
                      <br>
                      <b>Sent:</b> lundi 14 mai 2018 14:48<br>
                      <b>To:</b> Anas Tablieh <a
                        href="mailto:ATablieh@sierrawireless.com"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"><ATablieh@sierrawireless.com></a>;
                      <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br>
                      <b>Subject:</b> Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP
                      transfer (in)security</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
              </div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">Hi there,<br>
                  <br>
                  This is a mailing list, please use the unsubscribe
                  link at the bottom of these emails that is associated
                  with your email address!<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  On 05/14/2018 07:45 AM, Anas Tablieh wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                    style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Please
                    remove my mail address from this chat !!!!!!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
                    lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
                    lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <div>
                  <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
                    1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"
                          lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"
                        lang="EN-US"> members-discuss
                        <a
                          href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net"
                          moz-do-not-send="true"><members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net></a>
                        <b>On Behalf Of </b>Daniel Pearson<br>
                        <b>Sent:</b> lundi 14 mai 2018 14:25<br>
                        <b>To:</b> <a
                          href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br>
                        <b>Subject:</b> Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP
                        transfer (in)security</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">I concur, there is no legal leg
                    to stand on to force space to be returned. It just
                    cannot happen, end period. Thinking about it is
                    nothing but a fantasy and we live in reality.<br>
                    <br>
                    What your asking is no different than having a
                    complete stranger walk up to your house, admire your
                    big empty back yard, demand that you give it to them
                    because they want to build a house in your
                    neighborhood and well, you don't use your backyard
                    so why can't they have it for free?<br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    On 05/14/2018 07:05 AM, Peter Linder wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
                <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                  <p>But there is no point in arguing this. It has been
                    discussed over and over:<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p>It is not feasible to "reclaim" legacy space, just
                    because you want it for free or at a very low cost.
                    Current holders have a good legal ground to refuse. 
                    Even if it was somehow reclaimed on a large scale,
                    it would last for a year or so? Remember, most
                    addresses would need to go to countries with large
                    populations where Internet is not built up like it
                    is in Europe or North America. Then what? Even if
                    RIPE could reallocate addresses to last a few more
                    years it would mean even *more* work to do v6, not
                    less.
                    <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p>Just buy the addresses you need, if more than RIPE
                    will allocate to you. I know this sucks, especially
                    in poorer countries. But that is probably the only
                    way your business is going to happen, in the short
                    term. An alternative would be to bother the IETF to
                    release their reserved space but that is probably a
                    waste of time (never mind de-bogonizing it).<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p>Right now IPv4 shortage is hurting a little because
                    of cost. It will eventually start hurting more, and
                    in different ways. There are ways to prepare for
                    that, including making sure v6 is enabled and
                    functioning on everything you make.
                    <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p>/Peter<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">Den 2018-05-14 kl. 13:38, skrev
                      David Benwell:<o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                  <blockquote
                    style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">No
                        its about preventing the waste of IP Addresses.
                        Why allow a LLR to retain address space that
                        they may never have used.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <div>
                      <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
                        1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
                              lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
                            style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
                            lang="EN-US"> members-discuss [</span><a
                            href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
                              lang="EN-US">mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
                            lang="EN-US">]
                            <b>On Behalf Of </b>William<br>
                            <b>Sent:</b> 14 May 2018 12:32<br>
                            <b>To:</b> Bunea TELECOM </span><a
                            href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
                              lang="EN-US"><suport@bunea.eu></span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
                            lang="EN-US"><br>
                            <b>Cc:</b> </span><a
                            href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
                              lang="EN-US">members-discuss@ripe.net</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
                            lang="EN-US"><br>
                            <b>Subject:</b> Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP
                            transfer (in)security</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                          style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">But
                          this does not CHANGE IT IS THEFT, please have
                          a look at your history (or here in Croatia) -
                          you want to do the same, steal from some parts
                          of the society ('the rich') to 'benefit' the
                          whole which ends horribly wrong.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">This
                            discussion is almost as absurd as the
                            Russian suggestion to move RIPE to Moscow.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">--</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">William
                              Weber</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Consulting,
                              Security & Management - Tel-Aviv,
                              Israel / Rijeka, Croatia</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://ip6.im"
                              moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">https://ip6.im</span></a><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> - No RIPE LIR? Still
                              read this email for some reason? Grab a
                              /40 *free* IPv6 space for BGP usage. Or
                              just get it anyway, can't hurt to have.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        </div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                          style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
                            style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">On
                              Mon, May 14, 2018 at 13:16, Bunea TELECOM
                              <</span><a
                              href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu"
                              moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">suport@bunea.eu</span></a><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">> wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote
                          style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                  style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Everybody
                                  that says it’s theft, please consider
                                  the fact that those ‘guys’ got their
                                  hands on /8 blocks tens of years ago,
                                  and probably did not pay a dime for
                                  them.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">In
                                    the light of events, one /8,
                                    respecting the 1024 IPv4 policy that
                                    RIPE has, would belong to over
                                    16.000 LIR accounts!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">And
                                    I must say, 16.000 companies would
                                    create a lot of business compared to
                                    one company that holds a /8 :)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Thanks</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                <div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                        style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">—</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <div>
                                      <div>
                                        <div>
                                          <div>
                                            <div>
                                              <div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
                                      <img
                                        style="width:.6562in;height:.7604in"
                                        id="Picture_x0020_1"
                                        src="cid:part19.C5D4CB92.ABC8E250@privatesystems.net"
alt="imap://daniel%40knownhost%2Ecom@mail.knownhost.com:143/fetch%3EUID%3E.INBOX%3E303885?header=quotebody&part=1.2&filename=image001.jpg"
                                        class="" width="63" border="0"
                                        height="73"></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                        style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
                                        <br>
                                        <br>
                                        <br>
                                        <b>Petru Bunea</b> / CEO <br>
                                      </span><a
                                        href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#477CCC;text-decoration:none">suport@bunea.eu</span></a><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> / </span><a
                                        href="tel:+40752481282"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                          style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">+40752481282</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#212121">Bunea
                                        TELECOM</span></b><span
                                      style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> /
                                      DATACENTER / APP DEVELOPMENT<br>
                                    </span><a
                                      href="http://www.bunea.eu/"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#477CCC;text-decoration:none">http://www.bunea.eu</span></a><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> / </span><a
                                      href="tel:+40745495495"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                        style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">+40745495495</span></a><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                    </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                </div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                <div>
                                  <blockquote
                                    style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                          style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">On
                                          14 May 2018, at 14:16, Alex
                                          Lobachov <</span><a
                                          href="mailto:alxl@telenet.lv"
                                          target="_blank"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                            style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">alxl@telenet.lv</span></a><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">> wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                        style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                    <div>
                                      <div>
                                        <div>
                                          <div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Bruno has it’s point.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Legacy parts of the
                                                  space should be
                                                  reclaimed, but only
                                                  ICANN has the power to
                                                  do so.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I don’t like to call
                                                  it a thief, I’d rather
                                                  say as all IP space is
                                                  rented (owning a
                                                  number isn’t bright),
                                                  all that rented space,
                                                  wherever it is legacy
                                                  or current should be
                                                  re-audited to justify
                                                  the reason of use.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><br>
                                                  --<br>
                                                  Alex Lobachov<br>
                                                  Telenet, sia<br>
                                                  Network Systems
                                                  Engineer<br>
                                                  LinkedIn: </span><a
                                                  href="https://lv.linkedin.com/in/allxll"
                                                  target="_blank"
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">https://lv.linkedin.com/in/allxll</span></a><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><br>
                                                  E-mail: </span><a
                                                  href="mailto:alxl@telenet.lv"
                                                  target="_blank"
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">alxl@telenet.lv</span></a><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><br>
                                                  Skype: alxl__<br>
                                                  Direct office: +371
                                                  67886224<br>
                                                  Office: +371 67711111</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
                                                          style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
                                                      </span><a
                                                        href="mailto:bruno.carvalho@xrv.pt"
                                                        target="_blank"
title="bruno.carvalho@xrv.pt" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                                          style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Bruno
                                                          Carvalho</span></a><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
                                                      </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
                                                          style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Sent:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
                                                        Monday, May 14,
                                                        2018 2:04 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
                                                          style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">To:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
                                                      </span><a
                                                        href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net"
                                                        target="_blank"
title="members-discuss@ripe.net" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                                          style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">members-discuss@ripe.net</span></a><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
                                                      </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
                                                          style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Subject:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> Re:
[members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">William,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Legacy or not, at one
                                                    point a regulation
                                                    was introduced. And
                                                    everyone should be
                                                    regulated (pre-RIR
                                                    or not).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Is the same has if
                                                    you own a car from
                                                    back the traffic
                                                    laws (1800 years?).
                                                    If you drive it now,
                                                    you have to comply
                                                    with all the laws
                                                    that regulate the
                                                    sector.<br>
                                                    Why the legacy
                                                    address space owners
                                                    shouldn't have to
                                                    comply with the
                                                    actual regulations?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">If we look deep on
                                                    the spaces between
                                                    0.0.0.0 and
                                                    255.255.255.255
                                                    (that are not local
                                                    or bogons), i bet
                                                    that most than 50%
                                                    are legacy and not
                                                    used.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">---</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                <table
                                                  class="MsoNormalTable"
                                                  border="0"
                                                  cellspacing="3"
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                                                    <tr>
                                                      <td
                                                        style="width:111.0pt;padding:.75pt
                                                        .75pt .75pt
                                                        .75pt"
                                                        width="148">
                                                        <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm"><img
                                                          style="width:1.5416in;height:.4479in"
id="Picture_x0020_2"
                                                          src="cid:part29.0215D20F.F767208F@privatesystems.net"
                                                          alt="Image
                                                          removed by
                                                          sender. XRV"
                                                          class=""
                                                          width="148"
                                                          border="0"
                                                          height="43"></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                      </td>
                                                      <td
                                                        style="width:285.0pt;padding:.75pt
                                                        .75pt .75pt
                                                        .75pt"
                                                        width="380">
                                                        <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal">Bruno
                                                          Carvalho (CEO
                                                          <a
                                                          href="http://xrv.pt"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
                                                          xrv.pt</a>) |
                                                          +351 300 404
                                                          316<br>
                                                          <span
                                                          style="font-family:Webdings;color:#009900">P</span> <span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#009900">Please
                                                          consider the
                                                          environment
                                                          before
                                                          printing this
                                                          email</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                      </td>
                                                      <td
                                                        style="width:48.0pt;padding:.75pt
                                                        .75pt .75pt
                                                        .75pt"
                                                        width="64">
                                                        <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center" align="center"><a href="https://www.xrv.pt/"
                                                          target="_blank"
                                                          title="XRV"
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm;text-decoration:none"><img
style="width:.552in;height:.3333in" id="Picture_x0020_3"
                                                          src="cid:part31.9DEC1744.E4435098@privatesystems.net"
                                                          alt="Image
                                                          removed by
                                                          sender. Visit
                                                          our website"
                                                          class=""
                                                          width="53"
                                                          border="0"
                                                          height="32"></span></a><br>
                                                          <a
                                                          href="https://www.facebook.com/xervers/"
target="_blank" title="Visit us on Facebook" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm;text-decoration:none"><img
style="width:.3333in;height:.3333in" id="Picture_x0020_4"
                                                          src="cid:part33.445613D3.464324F6@privatesystems.net"
                                                          alt="Image
                                                          removed by
                                                          sender.
                                                          Facebook"
                                                          class=""
                                                          width="32"
                                                          border="0"
                                                          height="32"></span></a><a
href="https://twitter.com/xervers" target="_blank" title="Visit us on
                                                          Twitter"
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm;text-decoration:none"><img
style="width:.3333in;height:.3333in" id="Picture_x0020_5"
                                                          src="cid:part33.445613D3.464324F6@privatesystems.net"
                                                          alt="Image
                                                          removed by
                                                          sender.
                                                          Twitter"
                                                          class=""
                                                          width="32"
                                                          border="0"
                                                          height="32"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                      </td>
                                                    </tr>
                                                  </tbody>
                                                </table>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">On 2018-05-14 12:46,
                                                    William wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <blockquote
                                                style="border:none;border-left:solid
                                                #1010FF
                                                1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm
                                                0cm
5.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                                <div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">These are legacy. They
                                                      are not RIR
                                                      business.
                                                    </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">No RIR can reclaim
                                                        them (and
                                                        reclaim is
                                                        plainly wrong,
                                                        they never owned
                                                        them, this is
                                                        pre-RIR space),
                                                        they are private
                                                        property.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Taking them is theft
                                                        and nothing
                                                        else, no matter
                                                        how you phrase
                                                        it.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">--</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">William Weber</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Consulting, Security
                                                          &
                                                          Management -
                                                          Tel-Aviv,
                                                          Israel /
                                                          Rijeka,
                                                          Croatia</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://ip6.im/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                                          style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">https://ip6.im</span></a><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> - No RIPE LIR? Still
                                                          read this
                                                          email for some
                                                          reason? Grab a
                                                          /40 *free*
                                                          IPv6 space for
                                                          BGP usage. Or
                                                          just get it
                                                          anyway, can't
                                                          hurt to have.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
                                                        style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">On Mon, May 14, 2018
                                                          at 12:27,
                                                          Bunea TELECOM
                                                          <</span><a
href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">suport@bunea.eu</span></a><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">> wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      style="border:none;border-left:solid
                                                      #1010FF
                                                      1.5pt;padding:0cm
                                                      0cm 0cm
5.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                                      <div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">I agree, </span>
                                                          <o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">There are tens of /8's
                                                          available,
                                                          some of them
                                                          even
                                                          unannounced.
                                                          For example
                                                          there are lots
                                                          of entities
                                                          which if they
                                                          would gave up
                                                          (even
                                                          partially) of
                                                          their unused
                                                          blocks, it
                                                          would push the
                                                          IPv4 complete
                                                          exaustion to
                                                          2020+. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Petru</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">—</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
<email-signature.jpg></span><span
                                                          style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
                                                          </span>
                                                          <o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <strong><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Petru Bunea</span></strong> / CEO <br>
                                                          </span><a
                                                          href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#477CCC;text-decoration:none">suport@bunea.eu</span></a><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> /
                                                          </span><a
                                                          href="tel:+40752481282"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                                          style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">+40752481282</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#212121">Bunea
                                                          TELECOM</span></b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> /
                                                          DATACENTER /
                                                          APP
                                                          DEVELOPMENT<br>
                                                          </span><a
                                                          href="http://www.bunea.eu/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#477CCC;text-decoration:none">http://www.bunea.eu</span></a><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> /
                                                          </span><a
                                                          href="tel:+40745495495"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                                          style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">+40745495495</span></a><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          style="border:none;border-left:solid
                                                          #1010FF
                                                          1.5pt;padding:0cm
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5.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">On 14 May 2018, at
                                                          11:20,
                                                          Janarthanan
                                                          Sundaram <</span><a
href="mailto:j.sundaram@123telcom.nl" target="_blank"
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">j.sundaram@123telcom.nl</span></a><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">> wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I
                                                          think we
                                                          should
                                                          prioritize on
                                                          on point two:
                                                          what to do
                                                          with unused
                                                          blocks.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><br>
                                                          </span> <o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="border:none;border-top:solid
                                                          #E1E1E1
                                                          1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
                                                          0cm 0cm 0cm">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Van:</span></strong><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> members-discuss
                                                          <</span><a
href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net" target="_blank"
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">> <strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Namens </span></strong>Bruno
                                                          Carvalho<br>
                                                          <strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Verzonden:</span></strong> maandag
                                                          14 mei 2018
                                                          10:11<br>
                                                          <strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Aan:</span></strong> </span><a
href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank"
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">members-discuss@ripe.net</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><br>
                                                          <strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Onderwerp:</span></strong> Re:
[members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
                                                          style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">This
                                                          discussion is
                                                          quite
                                                          interesting.
                                                          But i think it
                                                          should be
                                                          discussed
                                                          between all
                                                          RiRs. Not only
                                                          for RIPE.<br>
                                                          When we look
                                                          at big
                                                          companies,
                                                          like
                                                          Microsoft, and
                                                          do a simple
                                                          scan of their
                                                          assigned IP
                                                          ranges... we
                                                          found some /14
                                                          and several
                                                          /16
                                                          unassigned/unused
                                                          ranges.</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </span><span
                                                          style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Personnally,
                                                          i think we
                                                          should focus
                                                          on 2 main
                                                          things:</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </span><span
                                                          style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">-
                                                          Improve IPv6
                                                          implementation
                                                          all over the
                                                          territory (i
                                                          know this is
                                                          painfull for
                                                          many LIRs
                                                          because it
                                                          implies
                                                          additional
                                                          work and
                                                          purchase of
                                                          new
                                                          equipments.
                                                          But let's face
                                                          it. We are in
                                                          2018. If an
                                                          equipment
                                                          doesn't
                                                          support IPv6,
                                                          it's very
                                                          obsolete and
                                                          not
                                                          performant).</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </span><span
                                                          style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">-
                                                          Check with the
                                                          other RiRs
                                                          what would be
                                                          the best to do
                                                          with those big
                                                          unused ranges
                                                          that are owned
                                                          by companies
                                                          that don't use
                                                          them.</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </span><span
                                                          style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Regards</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">---</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <table
                                                          class="MsoNormalTable"
                                                          border="0"
                                                          cellspacing="4"
cellpadding="0">
                                                          <tbody>
                                                          <tr>
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                                                          style="width:111.0pt;padding:.75pt
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                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Bruno Carvalho (CEO <a
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                                                          style="font-family:Webdings;color:#009900">P</span> <span
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                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
                                                           <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </span><span
                                                          style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">On
                                                          2018-05-14
                                                          09:51, Hans
                                                          Govenius
                                                          wrote:</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          style="border:none;border-left:solid
                                                          #1010FF
                                                          1.5pt;padding:0cm
                                                          0cm 0cm
5.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif">Hello<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Not needed IP
                                                          = The
                                                          addressese
                                                          company is
                                                          ready to sell
                                                          for a small
                                                          profit </span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI
                                                          Emoji",sans-serif">😊</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif"> ?
                                                          This is
                                                          probably good
                                                          indication
                                                          that its not
                                                          used anymore.
                                                          One option is
                                                          to
                                                          automatically
                                                          block all and
                                                          any IP
                                                          transaction
                                                          which does not
                                                          involve
                                                          transaction of
                                                          the whole
                                                          company/business.
                                                          It is a
                                                          question that
                                                          can IP be a
                                                          commodity. Now
                                                          its a
                                                          commodity that
                                                          is getting
                                                          more rare by
                                                          the year.
                                                          Maybe IP
                                                          should be
                                                          considered an
                                                          jointly owned
                                                          part of
                                                          infrastructure
                                                          which is
                                                          deployed by
                                                          need basis.
                                                          (Socialistic
                                                          way)<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Other option
                                                          is to start to
                                                          take money per
                                                          IP. This would
                                                          instantly mean
                                                          that everyone
                                                          would look up
                                                          to own ip
                                                          spaces. Let
                                                          say it would
                                                          cost 1 euro /
                                                          year for a IP
                                                          it would only
                                                          be approx 1000
                                                          euros for the
                                                          smallest
                                                          allocation.
                                                          Someone with
                                                          10 million IP
                                                          addressese are
                                                          likely to
                                                          happily pay
                                                          for it fi they
                                                          are in use,
                                                          but if they
                                                          are not i
                                                          would think
                                                          they would be
                                                          handed back.
                                                          (Capitalistic
                                                          way)<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          One option is
                                                          also to go
                                                          with the
                                                          current system
                                                          because
                                                          internet is
                                                          working so its
                                                          not horribly
                                                          wrong at the
                                                          moment
                                                          either. <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          One
                                                          interesting
                                                          this is tho
                                                          that old LIR:s
                                                          are likely to
                                                          wanting to
                                                          keep these
                                                          things
                                                          unchanged. New
                                                          LIR:s are more
                                                          likely to want
                                                          changes as
                                                          this is
                                                          heavily
                                                          favoring old
                                                          LIR:s. And
                                                          every year a
                                                          proportionally
                                                          larger part
                                                          will be the
                                                          ones with few
                                                          IP:s and same
                                                          vote than the
                                                          one with alot
                                                          of IP:s and
                                                          also only 1
                                                          vote. <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Br. Hans <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
-----Alkuperäinen viesti-----<br>
                                                          Lähettäjä:
                                                          members-discuss
                                                          <</span><a
href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net" target="_blank"
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</span></a><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif">>
                                                          Puolesta REG
                                                          ID: pl.skonet<br>
                                                          Lähetetty:
                                                          maanantai 14.
                                                          toukokuuta
                                                          2018 10.34<br>
Vastaanottaja: </span><a href="mailto:pdonner@znak.fi" target="_blank"
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif">pdonner@znak.fi</span></a><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif">; </span><a
href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank"
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif">members-discuss@ripe.net</span></a><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif"><br>
                                                          Aihe: Re:
                                                          [members-discuss]
                                                          VL: IP
                                                          transfer
                                                          (in)security<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          W dniu
                                                          14.05.2018 o
                                                          09:25, Philip
                                                          Donner pisze: </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          style="border:none;border-left:solid
                                                          #1010FF
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                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
                                                          style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New",serif"><br>
                                                          I would like
                                                          to amplify
                                                          Dave's good
                                                          proposal, by
                                                          suggesting
                                                          that unused
                                                          addresses
                                                          should be
                                                          handed back to
                                                          RIPE, so that
                                                          they can be
                                                          added to a
                                                          pool of
                                                          addresses
                                                          reserved for
                                                          LIRs who needs
                                                          them for
                                                          non-profit
                                                          promotion of
                                                          IP networks.</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif"><br>
                                                          Ok, but there
                                                          is never
                                                          ending story
                                                          to resolve:
                                                          how to define
                                                          'unused
                                                          addresses'.
                                                          Because not
                                                          announced in
                                                          BGP definitely
                                                          != not used.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          -- <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Tomasz Śląski<br>
                                                          pl.skonet<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
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                        <br>
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                    <pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
                    <pre>members-discuss mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
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                  <pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
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                </blockquote>
                <p> <o:p></o:p></p>
              </blockquote>
              <p> <o:p></o:p></p>
            </blockquote>
            <p> <o:p></o:p></p>
          </blockquote>
          <p> <o:p></o:p></p>
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        <p><o:p> </o:p></p>
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