<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">I agree,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">There are tens of /8’s available, some of them even unannounced. For example there are lots of entities which if they would gave up (even partially) of their unused blocks, it would push the IPv4 complete exaustion to 2020+. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thanks,</div><div class="">Petru<br class=""><div class=""> <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">—</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><div style="line-height: normal;" class=""><div apple-content-edited="true" class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; 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text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span><img apple-inline="yes" id="E8119DE8-CDC7-4857-9953-322D77071B54" src="cid:D3EC510C-8DD4-413A-919B-016F7A92B2B5" class=""></span><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; line-height: normal;" class=""><span class="txt sig-hide signature_name-target" data-mce-style="font-weight: bold; color: #212121; display: inline;" style="display: inline;"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><b class="">Petru Bunea</b></span> <span class="sep title-sep" data-mce-style="display: inline;" style="display: inline;">/</span> <span class="txt sig-hide signature_jobtitle-target" data-mce-style="color: #212121; display: inline;" style="display: inline;">CEO</span> <span class="break email-sep" data-mce-style="display: inline;" style="display: inline;"><br class=""></span><a class="email signature_email-target sig-hide link" href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu" data-mce-href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu" data-mce-style="color: #477ccc; text-decoration: none; display: inline;" style="color: rgb(71, 124, 204); text-decoration: none; display: inline;">suport@bunea.eu</a><span class="sep signature_email-sep" data-mce-style="display: inline;" style="display: inline;"> / </span><span class="txt signature_mobilephone-target sig-hide" data-mce-style="color: #212121; display: inline;" style="display: inline;"><a href="tel:+40752481282" data-mce-href="tel:+40752481282" class="">+40752481282</a></span></div><p data-mce-style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10px; line-height: 12px; margin-bottom: 10px;" class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; widows: 1; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10px; line-height: 12px; margin-bottom: 10px;"><span class="txt signature_companyname-target sig-hide" data-mce-style="font-weight: bold; color: #212121; display: inline;" style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(33, 33, 33); display: inline;">Bunea TELECOM</span> / DATACENTER / APP DEVELOPMENT<span class="break company-sep" data-mce-style="display: inline;" style="display: inline;"><br class=""></span><span class="txt signature_officephone-target sig-hide" data-mce-style="color: #212121;" style="color: rgb(33, 33, 33);"></span><span class="txt signature_fax-target sig-hide" data-mce-style="color: #212121;" style="color: rgb(33, 33, 33);"></span><span class="break address-sep"></span><span class="txt signature_address-target sig-hide" data-mce-style="color: #212121;" style="color: rgb(33, 33, 33);"></span><span class="break address2-sep"></span><span class="txt signature_address2-target sig-hide" data-mce-style="color: #212121;" style="color: rgb(33, 33, 33);"></span><span class="break website-sep"></span><a class="link signature_website-target sig-hide" href="http://www.bunea.eu/" data-mce-href="http://www.bunea.eu" data-mce-style="color: #477ccc; text-decoration: none; display: inline;" style="color: rgb(71, 124, 204); text-decoration: none; display: inline;">http://www.bunea.eu</a> / <a href="tel:+40745495495" data-mce-href="tel:+40745495495" class="">+40745495495</a></p> </span></div> <br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 14 May 2018, at 11:20, Janarthanan Sundaram <<a href="mailto:j.sundaram@123telcom.nl" class="">j.sundaram@123telcom.nl</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">I think we should prioritize on on point two: what to do with unused blocks.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Van:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>members-discuss <<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net" class="">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">Namens<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Bruno Carvalho<br class=""><b class="">Verzonden:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>maandag 14 mei 2018 10:11<br class=""><b class="">Aan:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" class="">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br class=""><b class="">Onderwerp:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><p style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;" class="">This discussion is quite interesting. But i think it should be discussed between all RiRs. Not only for RIPE.<br class="">When we look at big companies, like Microsoft, and do a simple scan of their assigned IP ranges... we found some /14 and several /16 unassigned/unused ranges.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;" class="">Personnally, i think we should focus on 2 main things:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;" class="">- Improve IPv6 implementation all over the territory (i know this is painfull for many LIRs because it implies additional work and purchase of new equipments. But let's face it. We are in 2018. If an equipment doesn't support IPv6, it's very obsolete and not performant).<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;" class="">- Check with the other RiRs what would be the best to do with those big unused ranges that are owned by companies that don't use them.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;" class="">Regards<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;" class="">---<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="4" cellpadding="0"><tbody class=""><tr class=""><td width="153" style="width: 111pt; padding: 0.75pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><img width="148" height="43" id="_x0000_i1025" src="https://www.xrv.pt/templates/xrv/html/img/xrv.png" alt="XRV" style="width: 1.5416in; height: 0.4479in;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div></td><td width="141" style="width: 285pt; padding: 0.75pt;" class=""><p align="center" style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: center;" class="">Bruno Carvalho (CEO <a href="http://xrv.pt" class="">xrv.pt</a>) | +351 300 404 316<br class=""><span style="font-family: Webdings; color: rgb(0, 153, 0);" class="">P</span> <span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 153, 0);" class="">Please consider the environment before printing this email</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p></td><td width="60" style="width: 48pt; padding: 0.75pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: center;" class=""><a href="https://www.xrv.pt/" title="XRV" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="text-decoration: none;" class=""><img border="0" width="53" height="32" id="_x0000_i1026" src="https://www.xrv.pt/templates/xrv/html/img/www.png" alt="Visit our website" style="width: 0.552in; height: 0.3333in;" class=""></span></a><br class=""><a href="https://www.facebook.com/xervers/" title="Visit us on Facebook" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="text-decoration: none;" class=""><img border="0" width="32" height="32" id="_x0000_i1027" src="https://www.xrv.pt/templates/xrv/html/img/facebook.png" alt="Facebook" style="width: 0.3333in; height: 0.3333in;" class=""></span></a><a href="https://twitter.com/xervers" title="Visit us on Twitter" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="text-decoration: none;" class=""><img border="0" width="32" height="32" id="_x0000_i1028" src="https://www.xrv.pt/templates/xrv/html/img/twitter.png" alt="Twitter" style="width: 0.3333in; height: 0.3333in;" class=""></span></a><o:p class=""></o:p></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div><p style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p><p style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;" class="">On 2018-05-14 09:51, Hans Govenius wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width: 1.5pt; border-left-color: rgb(16, 16, 255); padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 5pt; margin-left: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">Hello<br class=""><br class="">Not needed IP = The addressese company is ready to sell for a small profit<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Segoe UI Symbol', sans-serif;" class="">😊</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>? This is probably good indication that its not used anymore. One option is to automatically block all and any IP transaction which does not involve transaction of the whole company/business. It is a question that can IP be a commodity. Now its a commodity that is getting more rare by the year. Maybe IP should be considered an jointly owned part of infrastructure which is deployed by need basis. (Socialistic way)<br class=""><br class="">Other option is to start to take money per IP. This would instantly mean that everyone would look up to own ip spaces. Let say it would cost 1 euro / year for a IP it would only be approx 1000 euros for the smallest allocation. Someone with 10 million IP addressese are likely to happily pay for it fi they are in use, but if they are not i would think they would be handed back. (Capitalistic way)<br class=""><br class="">One option is also to go with the current system because internet is working so its not horribly wrong at the moment either.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">One interesting this is tho that old LIR:s are likely to wanting to keep these things unchanged. New LIR:s are more likely to want changes as this is heavily favoring old LIR:s. And every year a proportionally larger part will be the ones with few IP:s and same vote than the one with alot of IP:s and also only 1 vote.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">Br. Hans<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">-----Alkuperäinen viesti-----<br class="">Lähettäjä: members-discuss <<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>> Puolesta REG ID: pl.skonet<br class="">Lähetetty: maanantai 14. toukokuuta 2018 10.34<br class="">Vastaanottaja:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:pdonner@znak.fi" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">pdonner@znak.fi</a>;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br class="">Aihe: Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security<br class=""><br class="">W dniu 14.05.2018 o 09:25, Philip Donner pisze:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width: 1.5pt; border-left-color: rgb(16, 16, 255); padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 5pt; margin-left: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm;" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=""><br class="">I would like to amplify Dave's good proposal, by suggesting that unused addresses should be handed back to RIPE, so that they can be added to a pool of addresses reserved for LIRs who needs them for non-profit promotion of IP networks.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></blockquote><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=""><br class="">Ok, but there is never ending story to resolve: how to define 'unused addresses'. Because not announced in BGP definitely != not used.<br class=""><br class="">-- <br class=""><br class="">Tomasz Śląski<br class="">pl.skonet<br class=""><br class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">members-discuss mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br class=""><a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://mailman.ripe.net/</a><br class="">Unsubscribe:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/hans.govenius%40devnet.fi" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/hans.govenius%40devnet.fi</a><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">members-discuss mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br class=""><a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://mailman.ripe.net/</a><br class="">Unsubscribe:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/bruno.carvalho%40xrv.pt" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/bruno.carvalho%40xrv.pt</a><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">members-discuss mailing list</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" class="">members-discuss@ripe.net</a></span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/" class="">https://mailman.ripe.net/</a></span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Unsubscribe: <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/suport%40bunea.eu" class="">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/suport%40bunea.eu</a></span></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>