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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Whomever 104.254.252.60 &
      2a04:a9c0::42 are, that's not very nice trying to unsubscribe me
      from this list :)<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 04/13/2018 06:32 AM, Daniel Pearson wrote:<br>
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    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:1122eb3b-6e6b-a5cf-8e05-559b9fadd438@privatesystems.net">
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      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">As my grandfather use to say. "If it
        ain't broke, don't fix it".<br>
        <br>
        I know it makes everyone feel good to have these pointless
        discussions and if that's what it takes by all means continue
        on, I do find them entertaining, but please, join reality. End
        of the day this is business, it costs money. Considering no rate
        increases and the fact that most years we've had a surplus so
        who cares if they blow a little money on hookers and coke, it's
        ok. RIPE provides us a good, reliable service and prompt turn
        around time on any requests. As someone else has said, try
        working with other RIRs. <br>
        <br>
        Anyways, carry on.<br>
        <br>
        <br>
        On 04/13/2018 02:03 AM, Huf Oliver, CI-A Rolls-Royce Power
        Systems AG wrote:<br>
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        cite="mid:9f20ddd7dd404402b8589918fdad00c8@rrpowersystems.com">
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          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
              lang="EN-US">William,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
              lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
              lang="EN-US">while I don't feel competent enough to
              comment on the first part of your reply, I fully second
              the last paragraph!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
              lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
              lang="EN-US">Oliver.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
              lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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            <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
              1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><b>Von:</b>
                members-discuss [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                  href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>]
                <b>Im Auftrag von </b>William<br>
                <b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag, 13. April 2018 02:16<br>
                <b>An:</b> Aleksey Bulgakov <a
                  class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                  href="mailto:aleksbulgakov@gmail.com"
                  moz-do-not-send="true"><aleksbulgakov@gmail.com></a><br>
                <b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                  href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">members-discuss@ripe.net</a>; <a
                  class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                  href="mailto:agm@ripe.net" moz-do-not-send="true">agm@ripe.net</a><br>
                <b>Betreff:</b> Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce]
                [GM] RIPE NCC Annual Report 2017 and Proposed RIPE NCC
                Charging Scheme 2019<o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Must
                be some joke (i hope at least).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                  style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                  style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Russia
                  does not have staff needs available unless you pay
                  excessive (skilled are in fact leaving anyway, we have
                  a bunch of Russians working from Cyprus nowadays),
                  Russia is not politically stable (a stable autocracy
                  is not politically stable overall) and the currency
                  fluctuates between basically worthless and entirely
                  worthless.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                  style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Government
                  control is excessive, freedom of business is low,
                  growth is low, legal security is nil.... plus one more
                  round of UN sanctions could cut off any RIPE member
                  from paying invoices entirely.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                  style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                  style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Russia
                  is in no way suitable for RIPE (and in fact, Bulgaria
                  has less tax than Russia anyway + a much more simple
                  tax system + EU).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                  style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                  style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">In
                  case of no joke... after speaking with some LIRs we'll
                  boycott any attempts to move the NCC out of the EU and
                  i assume from the statutes this requires a full member
                  vote which is extremely unlikely to pass for Russia
                  (or in practice anyone else).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                  style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">William
                      Weber<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                  style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">On
                  Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 01:39, Aleksey Bulgakov <<a
                    href="mailto:aleksbulgakov@gmail.com"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">aleksbulgakov@gmail.com</a>>
                  wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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            <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
              <div>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                            style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><<a
                                href="mailto:david.ponzone@ipeva.fr"
                                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">david.ponzone@ipeva.fr</a>>:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
                          #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
                          6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
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                            <p class="MsoNormal"
                              style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                                style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">AFAIK,
                                social charges paid by the employer in
                                NL are around 28%, so it's less than
                                3000 euros per month per staff member of
                                income.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                                  style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">And
                                  that's before social charges paid by
                                  the employee (18%), so it's less than
                                  2500€ of net income per staff.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                                  style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                                  style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">I
                                  would not judge if that's high or low
                                  in NL, but that's not 4000€<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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                        </blockquote>
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                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">So,
                          we can move the RIPE office to another
                          country, with less salary numbers. E.g. there
                          are the salary numbers approximately 1500€ in
                          Russia, including tax 13%. With social tax 30%
                          the salary numbers are 2000€ in Moscow. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">What
                          do you think about it? Me and my colleagues,
                          who wrote here earlier, are ready to help the
                          community with relocation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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            </blockquote>
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        <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
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      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a>
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</pre>
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