<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Hans,</div><div><br></div>Understood, sorry I missed your point.<br><br><div id="AppleMailSignature">David Ponzone<div><br></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div></div><div><br>Le 12 avr. 2018 à 15:09, Hans Govenius <<a href="mailto:Hans.Govenius@devnet.fi">Hans.Govenius@devnet.fi</a>> a écrit :<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"> <base href="x-msg://1819/"><style></style> <div class="WordSection1"> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hello again<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">As i did point out we are speaking of some OPEX items NOT salary. Salary components are 9720 Keuros/year which means around 5300 euros/month/empoyee including indeed components you pointed out below and as we speak about work that is demanding i dont find that to be a problem in anyway. <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I did just count that not clearly opened NON-salary OPEX components which adds up to more than 4000 euros/month/person is quite high for these expenses. <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Salaries are not problem here. And maybe even not other expenses, it was just pointed out that NON-salary components could be disclosed more specifically. <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Best regads,<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hans Govenius<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> <p class="MsoNormal"><b>Lähettäjä:</b> David Ponzone <<a href="mailto:david.ponzone@ipeva.fr">david.ponzone@ipeva.fr</a>> <br> <b>Lähetetty:</b> torstai 12. huhtikuuta 2018 15.57<br> <b>Vastaanottaja:</b> Hans Govenius <<a href="mailto:Hans.Govenius@devnet.fi">Hans.Govenius@devnet.fi</a>><br> <b>Kopio:</b> Aleksey Bulgakov <<a href="mailto:aleksbulgakov@gmail.com">aleksbulgakov@gmail.com</a>>; <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a>; <a href="mailto:agm@ripe.net">agm@ripe.net</a><br> <b>Aihe:</b> Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] RIPE NCC Annual Report 2017 and Proposed RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2019<o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal">Sorry, my mistake, 3125€ per month per staff (4000/1,28).<o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">The net income remains around 2500€.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt">David Ponzone </span><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">Direction Technique</span></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">email: </span></span><a href="mailto:david.ponzone@ipeva.fr"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">david.ponzone@ipeva.fr</span></a><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">tel: 01 74 03 18 97</span></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">gsm: 06 66 98 76 34</span></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt">Service Client IPeva</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">tel: 0811 46 26 26</span></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><a href="blocked::http://www.ipeva.fr/"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">www.ipeva.fr</span></a><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#656895"> - </span><a href="blocked::http://www.ipeva-studio.com/"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">www.ipeva-studio.com</span></a><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0022F3"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0022F3"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><i><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:silver">Ce message et toutes les pièces jointes sont confidentiels et établis à l'intention exclusive de ses destinataires. Toute utilisation ou diffusion non autorisée est interdite. Tout message électronique est susceptible d'altération. <b>IPeva</b> décline toute responsabilité au titre de ce message s'il a été altéré, déformé ou falsifié. Si vous n'êtes pas destinataire de ce message, merci de le détruire immédiatement et d'avertir l'expéditeur.</span></i><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:silver"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><u><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0022F3"><o:p><span style="text-decoration:none"> </span></o:p></span></u></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">Le 12 avr. 2018 à 14:55, David Ponzone a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><br> <br> <o:p></o:p></p> <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">AFAIK, social charges paid by the employer in NL are around 28%, so it's less than 3000 euros per month per staff member of income.<o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">And that's before social charges paid by the employee (18%), so it's less than 2500€ of net income per staff.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">I would not judge if that's high or low in NL, but that's not 4000.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt">David Ponzone </span><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">Direction Technique</span></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">email: </span></span><a href="mailto:david.ponzone@ipeva.fr"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">david.ponzone@ipeva.fr</span></a><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">tel: 01 74 03 18 97</span></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">gsm: 06 66 98 76 34</span></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt">Service Client IPeva</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">tel: 0811 46 26 26</span></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#1C00FF"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><a href="blocked::http://www.ipeva.fr/"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">www.ipeva.fr</span></a><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#656895"> - </span><a href="blocked::http://www.ipeva-studio.com/"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">www.ipeva-studio.com</span></a><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0022F3"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0022F3"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><i><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:silver">Ce message et toutes les pièces jointes sont confidentiels et établis à l'intention exclusive de ses destinataires. Toute utilisation ou diffusion non autorisée est interdite. Tout message électronique est susceptible d'altération. <b>IPeva</b> décline toute responsabilité au titre de ce message s'il a été altéré, déformé ou falsifié. Si vous n'êtes pas destinataire de ce message, merci de le détruire immédiatement et d'avertir l'expéditeur.</span></i><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:silver"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><u><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0022F3"><o:p><span style="text-decoration:none"> </span></o:p></span></u></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">Le 12 avr. 2018 à 12:01, Hans Govenius a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><br> <br> <o:p></o:p></p> <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">Hello<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">There is 153 staff memebers at RIPE and having OPEX of 7,5 meur in Internals means over 4000 euros per month per one staff member. That is indeed quite high for a non-profit organization and therefore it would not be bad for transparency to open up atleast the biggest individual items. With current information it is not possible for paying members to sufficiently control and oversee the expenses generated by operations.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">Hans Govenius<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><b>Lähettäjä:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>members-discuss <<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>Puolesta<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Aleksey Bulgakov<br> <b>Lähetetty:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>keskiviikko 11. huhtikuuta 2018 18.52<br> <b>Kopio:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a>;<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:agm@ripe.net">agm@ripe.net</a><br> <b>Aihe:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] RIPE NCC Annual Report 2017 and Proposed RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2019<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">Dear, Axel.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">Thank you for your report.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">But I cannot understand some things. The number of members increases every year, but the annual payment isn't changed. The NCC is noncommercial organisation, but the payment for new members is 2000 euro for registration. Is it so hard to print papers and send them by DHL and is it necessary to make the membership so expensive?<o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">ср, 11 Апр 2018 г., 18:11 Sergey Myasoedov <<a href="mailto:kaa@net-art.cz">kaa@net-art.cz</a>>:<o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-width:initial;border-color:initial"> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">Dear Axel,<br> <br> Thank you for publishing the reports.<br> <br> It's very nice to put 7.5 MEur of opex as 'Internal' as mentioned on<br> the page 7 of the Annual Report, but this amount is 1/3 of total opex.<br> Can this amount be explained?<br> <br> <br> --<br> Kind regards,<br> Sergey Myasoedov<br> <br> <br> <br> You wrote Wednesday, April 11, 2018, 4:08:43 PM:<br> <br> > Dear RIPE NCC members,<br> <br> > The following important documents are now online:<br> <br> > - RIPE NCC Annual Report 2017<br> > - RIPE NCC Financial Report 2017<br> > - RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2019<br> <br> > All three are supporting documents for the RIPE NCC General Meeting<br> > (GM), which takes place from 16-18 May 2018. Members will vote to<br> > approve the Financial Report and the Charging Scheme at the GM.<br> <br> > The full list of supporting documents is available at:<br> ><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2018/supporting-documents/supporting-documents" target="_blank">https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2018/supporting-documents/supporting-documents</a><br> <br> > If you have any feedback, please email <<a href="mailto:agm@ripe.net" target="_blank">agm@ripe.net</a>>.<br> <br> > We ask all RIPE NCC members to register for the GM so they can vote on<br> > these documents, as well as in the Executive Board elections that will<br> > take place at the GM. Full remote participation is possible for those<br> > who cannot attend the meeting in Marseille.<br> <br> > We previously announced that publication of these documents would take<br> > place on 4 April. We apologise for the delay.<br> <br> > All information on the GM, including the draft agenda and how to<br> > register to participate remotely, is included on the GM homepage:<br> ><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2018/" target="_blank">https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2018/</a><br> <br> > Best regards,<br> <br> > Axel Pawlik<br> > Managing Director<br> > RIPE NCC<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> --<br> Kind regards,<br> Sergey Myasoedov<br> <br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> members-discuss mailing list<br> <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br> <a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/" target="_blank">https://mailman.ripe.net/</a><br> Unsubscribe:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/aleksbulgakov%40gmail.com" target="_blank">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/aleksbulgakov%40gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></p> </div> </blockquote> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">_______________________________________________<br> members-discuss mailing list<br> </span><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">members-discuss@ripe.net</span></a><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br> </span><a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">https://mailman.ripe.net/</span></a><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br> Unsubscribe:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/david.ponzone%40ipeva.fr"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/david.ponzone%40ipeva.fr</span></a><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </blockquote> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> </div> </div></blockquote></body></html>