<div dir="ltr">At least then it would cost them something, currently it doesn't really cost them any effort, time, or money. <div> </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"> <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 11:32 AM, Martin List-Petersen <<a href="mailto:martin@airwire.ie" target="_blank">martin@airwire.ie</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On 07/09/17 10:26, Tim Armstrong wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> I don't think it's too much to ask them to sign up, but perhaps there is some way to allow them to login and view the full DB with credentials from their own RIR? </blockquote> That would mean, that the other RIRs have to disclose credentials, give access or develop an API together. Even now, the DB systems and their output can differ quite a bit. I don't disagree, that information, like the email-address shouldn't just be easily available to scrape for mass mailing. In the case of a few country domain registries, it's been done by no displaying the email information via whois or in the complete DB download and the information only being available when querying the data via web after bot-check etc., which would be quite discouraging, as you'd have to sit and query each and every record manually. The problem you run into then, is that somebody that really wants to spam you just would hire some cheap labour (India etc.) to retrieve the data though.<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"> Kind regards, Martin List-Petersen Airwire Ltd. <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 11:22 AM, Martin List-Petersen <<a href="mailto:martin@airwire.ie" target="_blank">martin@airwire.ie</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> On 07/09/17 09:17, Tim Armstrong wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Or if your details are in the list and / or you are a technical contact attached to an LIR then you can see everything. Only non-technical / non-LIR people can't access it. Perhaps use passing the RIPE DB Training course as a requirement for access. </blockquote> Well, that's where you're not thinking globally though. Not every tech, that has need for the information in the RIPEdb, is automatically a RIPE member. They could be operating using other provider IPs or a member of ARIN/APNIC/AfriNIC for example. Kind regards, Martin List-Petersen Airwire Ltd. <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> On 7 Sep 2017 10:06 am, "Vegard Svanberg" <<a href="mailto:vegard@monsternett.no" target="_blank">vegard@monsternett.no</a>> wrote: * Tim Armstrong <<a href="mailto:t.armstrong@nerdalize.com" target="_blank">t.armstrong@nerdalize.com</a>> [2017-09-05 10:36]: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> I hate to bring this subject up again, but is there really nothing <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> structural we can do about this? At a minimum we could occlude e-mail addresses from the public DB, instead having public complaint submitted via a webform on the NCC website, requiring the uninitiated to realise this is an abuse / complaint contact, not a sales opportunity. </blockquote> I understand the problem (and get those pitches myself nearly daily). I have no alternative, simple solutions. I also haven't thought this through in detail. :-) However, and despite all that: I'd oppose the idea of hiding/obfuscating emails and centralising/limiting feedback loops to the NCC website. I'm concerned about the operational consequences of limiting the opportunity to collect emails and build and maintain lists of contact points (potentially) important for operations. And if we remove just emails, we'd probably have to do the same with phone numbers. They're calling from time to time as well. Again, I haven't thought this through, but it's the knee-jerk response anyway. Perhaps naming, shaming and blacklisting the offenders might be a better way to go. Perhaps verified members could get regular database dumps (including contact info) from other sources, or authenticate against the db to get the whole lot. I don't know. I'm not sure the problem is big enough to warrant any major changes. -- -o) Vegard Svanberg, MD - Monsternett (<a href="http://www.monsternett.no" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.monsternett.no</a>) /\\ Violgata 3A, N-1776 HALDEN, NORWAY _\_v Phone: <a href="tel:%28%2B47%29%2069701802" value="+4769701802" target="_blank">(+47) 69701802</a> | Fax: <a href="tel:%28%2B47%29%2069701801" value="+4769701801" target="_blank">(+47) 69701801</a> ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: <a href="https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/</a> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. </blockquote> ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: <a href="https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/</a> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. </blockquote> -- Airwire Ltd. - Ag Nascadh Pobail an Iarthair <a href="http://www.airwire.ie" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.airwire.ie</a> Phone: 091-865 968 Registered Office: Moy, Kinvara, Co. Galway, 091-865 968 - Registered in Ireland No. 508961 </blockquote> </blockquote> -- Airwire Ltd. - Ag Nascadh Pobail an Iarthair <a href="http://www.airwire.ie" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.airwire.ie</a> Phone: 091-865 968 Registered Office: Moy, Kinvara, Co. Galway, 091-865 968 - Registered in Ireland No. 508961 </div></div></blockquote></div> <div> </div>-- <div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><img src="https://drive.google.com/a/nerdalize.com/uc?id=0B0EM3I3SZxdsdnBncG41WkNSeWp2V3I5Q0NubGVOaUxFNWx3&export=download" width="96" height="31"> </div><pre style="white-space:pre-wrap">Tim Armstrong Dark Lord of Network Operations <a href="tel:+31617544472" style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" target="_blank">+31 6 175 444 72</a></pre></div></div></div></div></div></div></div> </div>