<div dir="ltr">Hi Arash:<div><br></div><div>You should look at policy mailing list, it has been a very long and complicated discussion for past 2 years, I can not tell you what happen in a single sentence, but I guess the conclusion are fairly simple, it can not be done though PDP.</div><div><br></div><div>With regards.</div><div><br></div><div>Lu </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 1:57 PM, Daniel Pearson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:daniel@privatesystems.net" target="_blank">daniel@privatesystems.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>I'm not saying that a discussion is
bad, but I'm simply saying that most of the discussions are being
had are not based on fact.<br>
<br>
To my knowledge RIPE doesn't have a list of members categorized by
assignment size, so this is something that someone would need to
parse the RIPE db for, it's all public record so it can be done.<br>
<br>
Would be curious to see, but even @ the estimated 15,000 LIR's
this year, I would assume only 3,000~ or less have just a single
/22 associated to their account. Just as a rough number I came up
with about 879,126,218 IP's within the RIPE NCC that aren't tied
to Legacy status. It's a VERY rough number, but as far as the
average LIR size and how many one has I stopped short on that as
that's more work than I care to put into pulling from the database
and making associations.<br>
<br>
Let me ask you, Arash, what is your goal. Is it to simply pay
less? If so, perhaps that is 'somewhat' feasible, assuming an
agreement can be reached with all parties.<br>
<br>
If your goal is to try and redistribute IP's then most will agree,
this is not possible, both in a legal sense (because of Legacy)
and it would be a self harming policy for most people to vote for.<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
Daniel~</font></span><div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 09/22/2016 06:44 AM, Arash Naderpour wrote:<br>
</div></div></div><div><div class="h5">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Well, Those so called small minority have the same
right as the others thinking they are majority, thats why every
organization has a right to vote. There is nothing wrong with
trying to have a level of fairness, while you can spend more
time on those real issues :)
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Maybe 1k Euro is nothing to many members, but it is
something important the end-users that recently had to become
a RIPE NCC member, to just receive an small block of /22. And
the number of those new members are more than the old ones
which are making a fortune by selling their unused IPv4 to
them. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Can anyone from RIPE NCC tell me how many members are
holding just an /22?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Arash</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 9:25 PM, Daniel
Pearson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:daniel@privatesystems.net" target="_blank">daniel@privatesystems.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I agree
that people need to do a LOT more research before randomly
spouting off about things.<br>
<br>
I spent several hours showing that any change made will not
result in a substantial financial impact as well as others
bringing valid points as far as Legacy blocks, European laws
in regards to a market monopoly etc, yet the vast majority
of the people crying for change have produced nothing
substantial.<br>
<br>
As far as I'm concerned if they can't produce a plan, based
on reality, then this is a dead discussion. Things should
stay as is, let's move on to something more realistic, such
as the folks getting /29 legacy assignments just to snag a
LIR account as well as folks opening multiple LIR accounts
with the hopes of transferring the /22 into a single account
one day. Those are real issues that can and should be
addressed more so than the small minority who thinks
everything in life should be fair and if it's not fair lets
make it fair.<span><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
Daniel~</font></span>
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
On 09/22/2016 05:18 AM, Dickinson, Ian wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I do find it entertaining that the legacy resource
holders that probably have WAY WAY more space than
they need and refuse to return their surplus for the
good of the internet have objections.<br>
I feel this is because their bosses would then start
asking if the need it all. They'd then be pressured
financially to return their 'cushions'. It boils
down to selfishness and not working towards the
common good of the internet. Just because you got it
when we were careless as an industry doesn't mean
you should hoard it now.<br>
We should bill legacy holders per /24 and they can
then pay for the unused space or return it. The
maintenance fees can then go to reducing costs to
LIRs with limited resources who are truly optimising
their resources so they can afford to buy more on
the transfer market. Or they could do the decent
thing and rationalise their requirements and return
unused space.<br>
What does newham council need 65000 odd public ips
for? What does a uni need a /16 for? I know one uni
I visited some friend at that used to give EVERY
DEVICE a public IP. That's unacceptable in the
current situation.<br>
I even know a trust that has a /20 they use in azure
over a VPN that they are using 5-10% of and they
frankly said they were keeping it because it was a
cheap annual fee. If it was expensive or per IP they
would have only kept a /23 and returned the rest.<br>
Maybe an amnesty for legacy holders where if they
return 50% of their space or more they can stay on
the current charging scheme but if they continue to
hoard they are penalised?<br>
</blockquote>
Wow. Just wow.<br>
<br>
Legacy space is out of scope for RIPE policy for
charging and reclaim.<br>
<br>
All sorts of organisations have need for addresses
that may not be obvious from the outside, but that
does not make them selfish.<br>
(This applies to PA space too)<br>
<br>
None of this would make any substantial difference to
the exhaustion situation anyway.<br>
<br>
It would be nice if a little more research was
apparent in some of the items in this thread.<br>
<br>
BTW, How advanced is your IPv6 deployment compared to
your deckchair rearrangement project?<br>
<br>
Ian<br>
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